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Your Questions Answered by Top Chevy Volt Executives, Part 2

November 18th, 2007 | Posted in: Battery, Design, Engineering, GM Q and A

me_dg_tp.jpg

Q: Are you going to use specialized lightweight materials?
A: (TP) “Some. The car will be more conventional than it will be groundbreaking in mass”..“We will use selective items where we feel we can manage the risk.”..“it would be shame if the battery came in in time, but the…’aluminum hood’ was late”

Q: So the car will have a steel frame then?
A: (TP) “Yes”

Q: Is there any possibility of this car coming our in 2009?
A: (TP) “No.”
A: (DG) There’s another factor when it comes to time frame. As Tony mentioned, this battery doesn’t exist. These battery suppliers have to build manufacturing capability. They have to build plants, they have to build equipment, and they have to go through their trial and error of tooling this battery as well, and that takes time.”

Q: Will multiple range battery sizes be offered?
A: (TP) “Not in the first version.”.. “We can imagine a day when the customer has a choice or check box..give me a 20 mile range…because maybe it will cost less”..
“There is an important issue. We find, going above the 40 (mile range) from what we know today is kind of the limit for us. Then you get to the point where mass and cost of the battery is already expensive.”..”Then you fringe on the areas where we don’t want to compromise. Certainly everyone (who wants and can afford one) can go out and buy a Tesla”..“We imagine that in the future with cell advances, that in that space we made for the battery maybe we can get 50 (miles)”

Q: Would you get more range if you removed the range extender from the car, as it adds mass?
A: (TP) “The 40 was chosen based on a lot of studies. Driving behavior, the cost and mass of the battery, etc. A battery, the size of this table gets you 40 miles, a little 8 gallon fuel tank gets you 400 miles, and this is that delicate balance (of design). We have ripe in our minds, the EV-1 experience of ‘range anxiety’”..”We feel it’s a minority of people who would not want a range extender. (removing the ICE) would affect range ‘not much’”..”Mass is not as big of a driver as aero and electricals.”

Q: Is it possible that a third companies battery could make it into the Volt?
A: (DG) “I’m just hoping that two make it (laughter)”

Q: Are you working with EEStor, maker of an ultrcapacitor?
A: (DG) “Yes. We have been working with them the last couple of years via USABC. There are a lot of companies that have a paper analysis of what their chemistry can do. We tell them come on in. We have a standardized spec sheet for every battery application, remember we have a whole portfolio of battery needs from the mild hybrid to the Volt. We have an open-door policy. I have yet to find a company that has the wherewithal to handle all of those types of needs.”..“We’ve had EEstor in, we’ve had communications.”..“They have our specs, questionnaire”..”We say (if they pass the questionnaire) we’ll buy a sample and we’ll test it in our lab under these conditions and share with you the results.”..“We maintain a separate facility and moneys..give me a single cell and I’ll test it. It’s an open door policy”..
“The ultra cap is good for bursts, because all the energy is stored on the surface. It charges quickly and releases quickly”..“R&D projects are looking at supercaps in conjunction with other technologies in order to provide you with the overall performance. Still in the very early stages.”

Q: Do you have the plug-in VUE prototype battery packs?
A: (DG) “Yes, we’ve got ‘em”

Q: How to you simulate on the cyclers (battery bench testing equipment) 10 years of driving in a short time frame, and how long does that take?
A; (DG) “It will be patented one of these days. It’s not public information. You use a lot of temperature because temperature accelerates the molecular chemistry per cycle”..“We also have to test the other components such as the electronics and plastics ability to withstand extended use”

Q: Do you have any working mules?
A: (TP) “We do not have any yet that have a pack. We have some vehicle-based hardware, that work has begun. The lithium-ion pack and the car will converge some time in the near future”

Posted by: Lyle

43 Responses to “Your Questions Answered by Top Chevy Volt Executives, Part 2”


  1. Drake
    Vote -1 Vote +1Drake     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 12:19 am

    Glad to see the new questions Lyle- thanks!

    The reference to the 8-gallon fuel tank in “range extender mass” question really hit home an important point for me: filling up the Volt under current gas prices in my area would only cost $24.72 [8*3.09]

    Under $25.00…very cool.  

    (Quote)


  2. mykallb
    Vote -1 Vote +1mykallb     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 12:23 am

    He’s got to be right about it being a “minority” would wouldn’t want the RE.  

    (Quote)


  3. Drake
    Vote -1 Vote +1Drake     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    Scratch that- the Volt’s gas tank will hold 12 gallons. I knew the 400-mile range on the ICE seemed low. 640 miles on the ICE will allow for a much more flexible vehicle anyway.

    mykallb- While more pure EV options on the market would be nice, I agree that the RE on the Volt will be preferable for the general population. The RE will round out the vehicle to allow it to be used for more things.  

    (Quote)


  4. Joe
    Vote -1 Vote +1Joe     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    First time contributer. I’m very excited about this car. The timing is right. I will need a new car around 2011. I want nothing more than see the fall of oil companies.

    I do have one concern. After looking at the pictures I noticed it had very little trunk space. As long my hockey bag fits then I’m ok with it.  

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  5. mykallb
    Vote -1 Vote +1mykallb     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 1:17 am

    What did I do? That should have read “that wouldn’t” not “would wouldn’t”.

    I’m still not sure why he mentioned an 8 gallon tank in the Q&A session, unless it was just an off the cuff example.

    M.  

    (Quote)


  6. Scott H
    Vote -1 Vote +1Scott H     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 1:23 am

    I’m glad they’re also looking at EEstor’s ultracapacitors. They could do away with batteries altogether in the future.

    Good work, Lyle. Great questions.  

    (Quote)


  7. Chris R.
    Vote -1 Vote +1Chris R.     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 1:25 am

    I think the ICE tank comment was just to compare the energy densities of the two fuels.  

    (Quote)


  8. AES
    Vote -1 Vote +1AES     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 2:54 am

    “Mass is not as big of a driver as aero and electricals”

    Get the aero down to 0.25 or below, please. The Flextreme design had the merit of having a very small grill for less drag.  

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  9. RB
    Vote -1 Vote +1RB     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 6:54 am

    Do we have any idea of where in the car the battery will go? 6 feet by 3 feet by 1.5 feet is pretty big, and 500 pounds is heavy.  

    (Quote)


  10. Roger
    Vote -1 Vote +1Roger     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 6:59 am

    Lyle — Outstanding Q&A. Thank you. –Roger  

    (Quote)


  11. Rashiid Amul
    Vote -1 Vote +1Rashiid Amul     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 9:12 am

    Lyle, great questions. Excellent interview over at Wired.

    Question: I understood that the Volt would cost “nicely under $30,000″. But I’m hearing now $35,000. Which one is correct, or is it
    still being decided?  

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  12. Statik
    Vote -1 Vote +1Statik     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 9:16 am

    I found the last couple days news very interesting, but only for the ‘off-the-cuff’ remarks:

    “this battery doesn’t exist. These battery suppliers have to build manufacturing capability. They have to build plants, they have to build equipment, and they have to go through their trial and error of tooling this battery as well, and that takes time”

    “He (Bob Lutz) is quoted as saying the Volt team said “2010 is an impossible target”.”-U.S. News and World Report/L.A. Show.

    “In particular he (Lutz) gave the first specific PRODUCTION date for the Volt, now more detailed than ever. It will be November 2010″

    I’m worried that the expectations delivery are way to high. This is alot of retoric already for a car that is 3-3.5 years off.

    They could just be nervous and trying to manage expectations and/or add in some room for failures, but it seems like if you take the ‘guesstimates’ we are being given today and then compare aginst the ‘guesstimates’ we were given only a few months ago they are realizing that maybe this car is going to be a doozie to actually get out.

    So in that spirit I will pin my hopes on late 2011 to receive one. Doesn’t look like any other viable major electric projects are any closer. It’s like they are all playing chicken, waiting for the first person to give a actual ‘release’ date…or muchless, open a waiting list.  

    (Quote)


  13. Talks
    Vote -1 Vote +1Talks     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 9:34 am

    Lyle,

    Do you know how the T shaped battery will be fitted in the Car. Will the horizontal Bar on the T will be beneath the rear seat or in front of the break pedal ?  

    (Quote)


  14. Talks
    Vote -1 Vote +1Talks     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 10:01 am

    Correction:
    I mean horizontal bar between engine and pedal
    Not front of the pedal.  

    (Quote)


  15. GXT
    Vote -1 Vote +1GXT     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    Rashiid Amul:

    GM is HOPING to get the car to around $30,000. The only indications that they will approach, make, or come under that target are from Lutz’s “I have a dream” off the cuff remarks. Refer also to:
    1) The battery is ready.
    2) 60K to 100K units first year
    3) It would take a disaster for this not to happen.

    I’m loving all this “reality” we get when Lutz is taken out of the picture. It shouldn’t be too long till one set of information gets muzzled… unfortunately it probably won’t be Lutz.  

    (Quote)


  16. GXT
    Vote -1 Vote +1GXT     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    I feel a little bit sorry for these execs.

    On one hand it must be terribly exciting to be given such control over such a potentially ground breaking project.

    On the other hand, it is obvious that GM always intended for the Volt to be a PR tool and a car second (if at all). GM and Lutz are making many vocal promise much too early and expecting everyone else to pull it off (or not).

    It would be a good comedy if it weren’t so sad. I fear it will end up being a tragedy.  

    (Quote)


  17. GXT
    Vote -1 Vote +1GXT     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    Statik:

    I’m pretty sure (and Lutz seems to have confirmed it lately) that GM has realized that their boycott of hybrids was the wrong strategy and now has a serious case of Prius-envy. They believe that they need a halo car like the Prius to save GM. Unfortunately their boycott has them so far behind in hybrid cars (see the dismal Aura hybrid) that they are shooting for the moon.

    GM and Lutz’s intention is to talk up the Volt to such a point that you forget about GM’s recent attitude and their present situation. They want you to forget the Volt doesn’t exist (they already have put out TV ads!) and may never exist.

    GM has damaged the hybrid industry when they should have been leaders. Now they may damage this industry by pretending to be leaders. My hope is that one of the other manufacturers that is scrambling to respond to GM manages not to screw it up. You also have to admire Toyota and Honda for continuing to execute their established strategy of producing incrementally better hybrids in the face of this three-ring circus.  

    (Quote)


  18. wirenutjd
    Vote -1 Vote +1wirenutjd     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 12:30 pm

    To: GXT, even if your correct at least we are making enough noise to alert the other manufactures to come up their version of an EV. Just check out the “Comet” from Spark-EV. An electric vehicle with a 200 mile range, 90 mph speed, at $33,000 U.S. Dollars and its due out in early 2008, oh yea its made in the U.S.A. they claim.
    http://www.spark-ev.com/index.html  

    (Quote)


  19. Scott H
    Vote -1 Vote +1Scott H     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    To wirenutjd #18:

    Just saw the Spark EV Comet website, interesting indeed. I work in a composite shop for a major airline, and carbon fiber is definitely the way to go for lightweight and strength. Only thing is, it’s definitely too “Buck Rogers” if you know what I mean. I like it, but most people would shy away from it.

    Just goes to show that EV’s are definitely coming down the pike. The next 5-10 years will be interesting, that’s for sure.  

    (Quote)


  20. wirenutjd
    Vote -1 Vote +1wirenutjd     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    Hey Scott, I have another one for you that looks good. Check out
    http://www.milesev.com/
    Happy surfing, John  

    (Quote)


  21. Dan D.
    Vote -1 Vote +1Dan D.     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 2:01 pm

    This car is likely to be the most important invention of the 21st century thus far. Politically, environmentally and economically it is tremendously important. The US government realizes this, which is why they’ve approached the Volt team asking how they can help. Surely there will be substantial rebates. If the MSRP could come in at, say, $33,995, with a $4,000 government rebate, they could advertise it at $29,995. Getting it under $30,000 is huge.

    One thing I’d suggest for all you Volt enthusiasts is picking up the GM credit card. 3% of your purchases can go to buying a new car. By the time I buy it, and I surely will, I’ll be able to use my student bonus and well over $1,000 in GM dollars.

    The range on this car is tremendous. 1,000 km range would get me from Toronto to Boston without needing to stop for gas.  

    (Quote)


  22. Statik
    Vote -1 Vote +1Statik     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

    I trashed my GM Card the day they got rid of the 5%/unlimited. Now it’s 3%, expires in 3 years…meaning whatever you earned today you couldn’t put towards a Volt because your points would be gone before you could take possesion.

    AND GM limits what you can spend on individual vehicles…low margin cars are $700. Who says they will even let you use them at all?

    I only use 1 credit card for everything (including all my business expenses)…thats a 2% dividend card…always end up making around $3-$5K a year IN CASH.  

    (Quote)


  23. RB
    Vote -1 Vote +1RB     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    GXT
    Perhaps you are too pessimistic. Big corporations can put a lot of muscle — meaning money, talent, time— behind an idea when the corporate top level is saying “make it happen” and the lower levels are saying “we will do it”. As an idea gains traction it becomes hard to stop because egos and careers get tied to making it work. Yes, a lot of things can possibly go wrong, but the outlook does not look that way right now. If whatever problems come up — and no doubt there will be some — can be resolved with a few months on the schedule, that’s OK. Let’s cheer the project on through our interest and hope they are successful.  

    (Quote)


  24. RB
    Vote -1 Vote +1RB     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    GXT says
    “GM and Lutz are making many vocal promise much too early and expecting everyone else to pull it off (or not).”

    With greatest respect, this is what the top level corporate executives are supposed to do — set big goals and make them happen. I’ll bet that “everyone else” at GM is enjoying working on this project, as it is something visible and big that’s going to make a product where people can say “I worked on that.” And, of course, it is not just Lutz saying it, it is Waggoner, and no doubt GM Board Members too. For the first time in a long time, we are seeing automotive leadership from GM in terms of design, and that’s great.  

    (Quote)


  25. kent beuchert
    Vote -1 Vote +1kent beuchert     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 6:23 pm

    I find it enlightening to see that any and all battery makers have easy access to compete. Of course, it’s in GM’s best interests that an open door policy be followed. That is so un-Japanese, where supplier contracts tend to be based on personal relationships. It’s obvious that GM hasn’t overlooked any of the battery makers, although those who are shareholders of Altair and others claim otherwise.  

    (Quote)


  26. kent beuchert
    Vote -1 Vote +1kent beuchert     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    It almost sounds like GM is hoping that both LG and A123 Systems succeed and can give both contracts. There would seem to be plenty of business for both, especially
    if my hunch (and Lyle’s) of another E-Flex version is announced in January at the auto show from Saturn.  

    (Quote)


  27. bruce g
    Vote -1 Vote +1bruce g     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 6:34 pm

    Just as a point of order, does anyone know what the senate is doing about
    H.R. 3776: Energy Storage Technology Advancement Act of 2007

    Like the board of GM we may need to set some big goals and make them happen.  

    (Quote)


  28. james
    Vote -1 Vote +1james     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 7:26 pm

    @ gxt 15, 16, &17, amazing, three posts in a row. i really have no doubts that toyota is paying people to troll on here.
    this car (the volt) is really not a big deal, it’s my understanding that harley has been making golf carts under the same concept for years?
    my god, all we are talking about is an electric motor with a small gas generator. the plan is so simple, that i can’t believe that there is anyone who can’t see how easy this should be.
    and yes capacitors will eventually replace batteries, hopefully sooner than later.
    thanks gm for this great car…  

    (Quote)


  29. bruce g
    Vote -1 Vote +1bruce g     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    I hope it is the first of a line of great cars but it is clear the batteries need to be improved as fast as possible, and Supercaps of course.
    A billion dollars would undoubtedly help.
    Now..about this HR 3776…  

    (Quote)


  30. Grizzly
    Vote -1 Vote +1Grizzly     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    GXT #17 and I quote:

    “GM has damaged the hybrid industry when they should have been leaders. Now they may damage this industry by pretending to be leaders.”

    ******

    If you consider a superior product that competes with Hybrids “damaging” then that’s your problem. Make no mistake about it, the
    Volt is an EVRx or EVRE, and not a Hybrid.

    LOF, Maybe you should go back to that Toyota dealership again and pester the poor hard working salesman and his manager as to why Toyota doesn’t have any Range Extended EV’s and exploit them on your videos a second time ;) .  

    (Quote)


  31. john1701a
    Vote -1 Vote +1john1701a     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    Leadership is measured in two ways, people seem to be forgetting that.

    Type #1
    ———-
    GM will definitely get a kudos for technical triumph. Volt will be engineering merit well earned.

    Type #2
    ———-
    This is where Toyota has a massive lead on GM: production volume. It’s that simple. This type of leadership is measured by actual sales. If GM has suppliers well lined up and consumer expectations set realistically, they too will do well.

    JOHN  

    (Quote)


  32. james
    Vote -1 Vote +1james     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 10:44 pm

    to 29 bruce g…bruce, the great thing is that there are many companies (and individuals, see you-tube) getting involved with electric type vehicles, including motorcycles (my personal favorite). therefore, as these vehicles hit the market, and as demand grows, and as competition grows, batteries (and hopefully capacitors) will be greatly improved.
    and it won’t take as long as it may appear.
    once this whole thing gets moving, it Will be exponential!  

    (Quote)


  33. Jimmy
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jimmy     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 11:24 pm

    john1701a:

    The last I checked GM and Toyota produce about the same number of cars. How does Toyota have a “massive lead”? Let me guess …you drive a Toyota.  

    (Quote)


  34. Jimmy
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jimmy     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 11:28 pm

    GXT:

    You are a “glass half empty” guy …arnt you?
    I will be a proud owner of a Volt in 1,094 days and counting.  

    (Quote)


  35. john1701a
    Vote -1 Vote +1john1701a     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 11:38 pm

    [quote comment="15388"]How does Toyota have a “massive lead”?[/quote]

    Annual hybrid production is currently around 400,000 and is expected to grow quite a bit before the introduction of Volt.

    GM is starting small with Two-Mode, just a 1/10th that of Toyota.

    Watch the market closely for 7 years like I have, you’ll see those same production supply & capacity concerns in time too. A hit product with orders backed up too far can be a bad thing.

    JOHN  

    (Quote)


  36. pstoller78
    Vote -1 Vote +1pstoller78     Says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 11:43 pm

  37. Jimmy
    Vote -1 Vote +1Jimmy     Says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 12:11 am

    john1701a:

    Your original post did not say hybrids.  

    (Quote)


  38. bruce g
    Vote -1 Vote +1bruce g     Says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 1:52 am

    James,
    I dont know anything about battery chemistry but I do note the effort required to produce a small vehicle such as the volt.
    Would we need new chemistry to produce 7 seater SUV for example with a 40 mile range, or an eighty seater bus.
    Its seems to be a matter of power and energy density. I dont know if A123 chemistry will ever allow such a vehicle.
    Large amounts spent on research now may allow larger mass produced vehicles when they are required, and that may be soon.  

    (Quote)


  39. james
    Vote -1 Vote +1james     Says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 5:25 am

    @ john35, see jimmys37 point, you did not say toyota’s hybrid’s are ahead of gm, you stated toyota’s production volume is way ahead of gm. the point is, gm wasn’t interested in hybrid’s, the volt is Not a hybrid and it is going to blow toyota’s hybrids sh*t out of the water.
    i wish you paid toyota trolls would either get your facts straight, or get the h*ll of the board!
    bruce g38, i don’t know battery chem either, but i do know business and faith, once these things start, they grow exponentially (sp.) (like a snowball). what gm has done/is doing, is starting that snowball.
    i’m not positive, but i think there are already large fleet busses running on total electric, or electric with a generator extender, could be wrong, i read so much stuff on this lately, hard to keep it all in tact.
    anyway bruce, totally agree with the last line of your statement.  

    (Quote)


  40. Tim
    Vote -1 Vote +1Tim     Says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 8:02 am

    Here is Felix Kramer’s most recent report on the Volt at Green Car Congress. Felix is the founder of the California Cars initiative. More info.

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/11/the-chevrolet-v.html#more  

    (Quote)


  41. james
    Vote -1 Vote +1james     Says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 12:19 am

    tim 40, nice article. thanks for the update!  

    (Quote)


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