I caught up to Bob Lutz again today at the L.A. Auto Show press day. After unveiling the new green series of Chevrolets including a new 2-mode hybrid Silverado pick-up truck and plans to produce one of the new mini cars called the Beat, with an expected 50 mpg highway mpg, Mr. Lutz was scrummed by reporters after his talk. This term scrum apparently means surrounded.
I poked into the crowd and picked him up saying a few things.
In particular he gave the first specific production date for the Volt, now more detailed than ever. It will be November 2010; and, per spokespersons, will be released as a 2011 model year.
Further, Mr. Lutz went on to disclose some global production plans; indicating that Chevy Volts will be sold in multiple countries beyond the U.S., and as such, will be built in left and right side driver versions.
He was also expressive about Toyota’s previous comments that the Volt would only get 10 miles of electric range (like their plug-in prototypes). Lutz said “we’ll see who’s credibility takes a hit” when the mules get test driven in the spring of 08.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, November 14th, 2007 at 6:50 pm and is filed under Release Date. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Nov 14th, 2007 (6:52 pm)Deposit??????
Nov 14th, 2007 (7:06 pm)[...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerpt I caught up to Bob Lutz again today at the L.A. Auto Show press day. After unveiling the new green series of Chevrolets including a new 2-mode hybrid Silverado pick-up truck and plans to produce one of the new mini cars called the Beat, with an expected 50 mpg highway mpg, Mr. Lutz was scrummed by reporters after his talk. This term scrum apparently means surrounded. I poked into the crowd and picked him up saying a few things. In particular he gave the first specific production date for the [...]
Nov 14th, 2007 (7:21 pm)November 2010 is too late for me. I guess I will go ahead and buy the full EV highway sedan from Miles which will be released in 4th quarter 2008. I have been in contact with them and I was told it would be targeted at $30K. http://www.mileselectricvehicles.com
Nov 14th, 2007 (7:28 pm)“November 2010 is too late for me. I guess I will go ahead and buy the full EV highway sedan from Miles which will be released in 4th quarter 2008. I have been in contact with them and I was told it would be targeted at $30K.”
Right and when you go on a long trip you’ll have to either own another car or you’ll have to stop every 120 miles at a hotel while I just gas my volt up and keep going after about 600 miles. I’ll wait until 2015 if I have to.
Nov 14th, 2007 (7:34 pm)“Right and when you go on a long trip you’ll have to either own another car or you’ll have to stop every 120 miles at a hotel while I just gas my volt up and keep going after about 600 miles. I’ll wait until 2015 if I have to.”
Hey, I am all for the Volt. I just don’t want to wait until 2011. I suspect there will be a whole lot of different options before then. I fear GM is shooting themselves in the foot (again) by waiting so long. They could have this car out within a year if they were commited to. By the way…. I will also have a gasoline car for the long trips.
Nov 14th, 2007 (7:43 pm)Looking around the web to get more news about this, I found several quotes of Lutz saying the production Volt won’t look like the concept car. The last post on this blog says, “Nonetheless, he said the car will be unmistakable in appearance as a Volt.”
So that means it will look unique, but nothing like the current version?
I seem to remember him saying earlier that the Volt _would_ look like the concept car. I don’t care either way except for what it says about how reliable his pronouncements are.
I still believe the Volt will happen because GM must appreciate the consequences of not delivering after all the claims it has made.
Nov 14th, 2007 (7:46 pm)How many lithum battery PHEV’s will go on sale in 2010? Nissan? Toyota? Kia? It looks like GM will miss the opening bell.
Nov 14th, 2007 (7:52 pm)Does this mean all e-flex Delta models will be built in Detroit?
Chevy,Saturn, Opel,Holden?
Nov 14th, 2007 (8:09 pm)I’m amazed at the rapid progress this project is making. It’s only been around for a year and a half from what I can tell, and they’ve already got a firm release date. They certainly don’t want to rush it and release a product that’s not up to snuff. It is a game-changing concept, and risking failure by short-changing the development and testing would be idiocy. I can wait 3 years, and will probably wait a little longer, since I like the kinks to be worked out of brand new tech.
Hopefully 3 years will give time to improve batteries even further and dramatically lower their manufacturing cost, so this can be a profitable car.
Finally, having two companies, one very well-capitalized, and one tiny, inventive firm go head to head was a masterstroke. Toyota had just one, Panasonic. Having the two compete doesn’t give a lot of opportunity to delay for either.
Nov 14th, 2007 (8:21 pm)I just thought of something.
The volt’s 1.0 liter engine won’t be connected to a transmission. It’ll be easy to remove. I wonder if the dealer will allow a range extender source swap to be done with a decent price like $3000. That would beat buying a new car if your particular fuel source, like hydrogen, suddenly became very expensive or if the hydrogen cell got fried, just switch it to an Eflex.
Nov 14th, 2007 (8:29 pm)jrcase:
I agree with you about Mile’s product…only I’m skeptical. Where’s the prototype? Where are the crash test results? Hope the thing isn’t a coffin as someone so elequently put it.
Nov 14th, 2007 (8:31 pm)You’ve got it,
There have been a dozen possiblities mentioned for fuel sources, it is an alternative energy dream come true.
Now how did they do those coal burners in the old days…reciprocating steam…bigger exhaust pipe…hmmmm….
Nov 14th, 2007 (8:57 pm)very disappointed in the 2011 release date, I’m afraid it will be too late. Volvo has a nice plug-in C30 that may beat the volt to the showroom. I’m waiting, but probably not that long. 2008 or 09 max.
Nov 14th, 2007 (9:13 pm)I was hoping that Bob would be announcing an early 2010 production date. I’m skeptical of other mass produced rxEV being available at that point. But there will be a lot less wow factor by then, especially since there will be several PHEV available by then and with big batteries.
Nov 14th, 2007 (9:15 pm)Release in 2010 is ok, considering the gamechanging nature of the Volt, but the critics are right in that even limited production of an EVRx in 2009 would be incredibly positive. There are going to be several BEV’s developed and sold in the 2008-9 timeframe, none of them as flexible and useful as a Volt but positive steps. A BEV with 150 mile range is inherently a second car, and will sell in numbers that reflect that, but several car makers are saying they will deliver decent PHEV’s in the next two years, albeit with limited electric range.
It would be in GM’s best interest to get at least a few thousand Volts out in 2009.
I really want to own this car in 2009.
Nov 14th, 2007 (9:20 pm)It may come down to a battle of the batteries.
For example the Volvo C30 is said to use a Lithium Polymer battery. I cant find who is supplying.
Nov 14th, 2007 (9:23 pm)That Volvo C30 is a serial hybrid, the game has already changed,there will just be a market share battle.
Nov 14th, 2007 (9:38 pm)My non-engineer opinion is: The battery technology is here, it just needs to be hardened. Command (Software) and control components (electronics) need to be assembled, which they know how to do, example EV1. They know how to build cars e.g. frames, bodies, interiors, crash testing etc., after all they are General Motors. The Mules will be running around with Volt components for a year. The labs will be running battery packs in their laboratory torture chambers from now through 2008-early 2009. I’d guess (more like hope) they’re really shooting for sometime in 2009 but say 2010/2011 to disorient the competition. It’s bad news to announce a date and miss it, it’s great news to have the release date moved up.
GM might not like this question but are there any Volt members who live near the Hamtramck assembly plant to keep us posted. It would be good to get a feel for activity there over the next year or so. Someone to let us know when they may be retooling, setting up the line?
Nov 14th, 2007 (9:48 pm)Ziv:
GM will sell a plug-in hybrid Saturn Vue in 2009 with about 10 miles all-electric range.
If you can recharge at work (admittedly most can’t) and you can get 10 miles per day out of a solar roof, then even PHEVs can get you close to 30 miles per day.
Nov 14th, 2007 (9:52 pm)A BEV that gets 150m range is a second car?
How often does a typical American need to travel more than 150 miles in a day? How often does (s)he drive cross country?
For me those are very rare events indeed and I suspect for most of us. The “second car” is the one needed for those rare occasions and could even be a rental. I’d like to have the option to take this car on my next kid’s cross country college tour, but it is not a deal breaker. Get the Miles car out, show me it passes crash test and performs well, and it may beat the Volt to be my next car.
Volvo is likely a different demographic, and so are those of us like me willing to drive BEV at this point. Getting it right to sell to the masses is key here. Do it right rather than do it fast. Anyway, that’s right where they’ve been saying: produced in 2010 likely as a 2011 model.
Nov 14th, 2007 (10:00 pm)Nick, the plug-in Vue is a perfect example of how there are two trends developing that are just short of what people need/demand, BEV’s that have relatively short range and recharge rather slowly and PHEV’s that have 1/4 or 1/3 the all electric range most people need. A PHEV with 30 mile electric range would be a great car, maybe even a 25 mile range would be sufficient for most people. 10-15 mile all electric range is just not going to work for most people.
These compromise cars are great first steps and they will make good second cars, but for a real game changing car, you need to go EVRx, given the state of the art with regard to batteries in the next 4 or 5 years. Unless EEStor or one of the other sleepers actually come through.
And when I get my Volt, you can bet that I will be buying PhotoVoltaics to put on the roof of my home and a wind generator to boot!
Nov 14th, 2007 (10:16 pm)I will worship Bob Lutz like a god.
Nov 14th, 2007 (11:02 pm)BTW, any link on when the Volvo C30 is expected out and its expected price point?
Nov 14th, 2007 (11:10 pm)Hmmm… Thinking a bit more about my previous comment. GM already understands/has all the technology. The only item not completely nailed down is the battery, just like Bob Lutz said. He recently stated he’s now confident about the battery. Well, it shouldn’t take until 2010/2011 to get the car in to production it’s available now.
Evidence.
Exhibit #1 Chevrolet Equinox hydrogen.
From GM’s own web site.
http://www.chevrolet.com/fuelcell/
Click on “Real drivers, real use” here is a snipit of what’s said.
“Coming fall 2007, you may have the opportunity to drive Equinox Fuel Cell to work, on your errands and any place you’d drive your own vehicle. Named “Project Driveway”, this is the world’s largest fuel cell vehicle market test. It will take place in metropolitan New York City, Washington, D.C. and California —”
You might say that’s hydrogen, well it’s using the e-flex skateboard or at least the technology from it. They state the Equinox is using the technology from the Sequel.
Exhibit #2 The sequel
From GM’s own web site.
http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/news/2006/sequel_091206.jsp
Note this quote from the hyper-link.
“It is the first vehicle in the world to successfully integrate a hydrogen fuel cell propulsion system with a broad menu of advanced technologies such as steer-and brake-by-wire controls, wheel hub motors, lithium-ion batteries and a lightweight aluminum structure.”
Do note they say Lithium-ion batteries, granted it was probably the very unsafe lithium chemistry. Still all the components are there/here in an equinox. The equinox is assembled, has tires and runs on the road. The only downside is it’s pushing hydrogen. Rip out the fuel cell put in the ICE and safe chemistry battery and put that on peoples driveways as a test in 2008.
This very site details there are 100 equinox driveable cars
http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/10/25/project-driveway-begins-gm-voltcom-test-drive-of-the-chevy-equinox-hydrogen-fuel-cell-electric-car/
So GM will only produce Volt mules in 2008?
Help me out here folks, I’m dizzy…
Nov 14th, 2007 (11:16 pm)3 more full years? That is depressing.
Nov 14th, 2007 (11:16 pm)my prius dream car is out the window! ill be ready to trade in my current car in 2012, which is perfect for me… give em a year or two to work the kinks out of the volt.. im patient enough.
Nov 14th, 2007 (11:55 pm)I’ve just learned that A123 and their Chinese sub (their only Chinese sub) CBAK have terminated their agreement with each other.
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/071106/cbak8-k.html
(see near the bottom)
What does this mean to A123′s chances? I had no concern about their ability to deliver when I knew that they had a solid sub in place, but now they are apparently going it alone? Suddenly they look like much less of a sure thing. The technology might be there but the cost effective manufacturing capacity is now much more of an open question.
Nov 15th, 2007 (12:04 am)Remember that GM seems to be conservative about the electric range (we have deduced here that the 40 mile range seems to be the end-of-life figure, which means the battery may initially be good for 45-50 miles or more).
Maybe they are being conservative about the release date as well? It would be bad to be late, but everyone would sing the praises of GM if they were 6 months to a year early. I think I remember a couple years ago GM told their engineers they needed the new Silverado quickly, and it was finished several months ahead of schedule.
Nov 15th, 2007 (12:47 am)Just saw pictures of the Volvo C30. Impressive, reminds me of my Mini Cooper S. Hopely the Volt’s final design is as nice as the C30′s.
Just wonder what price they will charge for it.
Nov 15th, 2007 (12:50 am)Also went to the Miles EV website. No, thanks. With that kind of range, I still want a range extender engine.
Nov 15th, 2007 (1:14 am)If GM even hints of a release earlier than 2011 I’ll wait! But the other car manufactures are being pressured to go “full steam ahead” or lose the chance of keeping up with GM, we’ll see. The L.A. auto show is here and I’ll be there, however, first reports are that not all the “green” cars are showing up.
Nov 15th, 2007 (3:18 am)From what Ive read the GM engineers are capable of delivering six months earlier than scheduled.
The japanese appear to be six months quicker than GM but there is confusion over “design freeze”. When pressed(Silverado)the GM engineers can equal them…that is based on Interner readings..sorry I cant quote my sources (poor notetaking)but this is just fun after all.
The equinox as a mule is interesting. I guess than the expected delay is not battery testing but rather battery production.
Thats my two cents worth of confusion.
Nov 15th, 2007 (8:07 am)In 2011, my Elantra will have 270K miles on it. The car is built so well, it will make it. I can wait, although I would like the Volt sooner. I think it is more important that GM makes the Volt as perfect as possible.
I would rather wait an extra year, spend 30K and have a great reliable car, than spend the 30k a year sooner and have a bad car.
As I have said before, GM must get this right.
Nov 15th, 2007 (8:57 am)Am I reading the release correctly? PRODUCTION starts in November 2010. Wouldn’t that mean the actual cars on the dealer lots would be more like spring 2011? I am sure GM can not START production in Nov and have the cars on the lots in the same month. Yep. GM is going to blow it. They better get off their duffs and get this out before the others do.
Nov 15th, 2007 (10:30 am)They can totally have them on the lot in the same month. How long do you think it takes to build and ship a car? When I ordered my BMW (and obviously GM has more production capacity) I could check online to see where it was in the production/delivery process. It took about 2 weeks total from when they began building it until I took delivery.
Nov 15th, 2007 (11:22 am)It takes at least 3 years to build a new production car even if you have all the facts! There is lots of history to illustrate this fact. The idea that you can bring all new car into production in a year is absurd and displays a complete ignorance of the amount of work that needs to be done. Have you got any idea of how much work it takes to tool up a production line – and that can’t even start until the design is finalized. You can’t compare a Mom and Pop operation creating tens of cars with setting up a production line to produce thousands of cars. Even then the Mom and Pops borrow most of their design from some existing design. How long has it taken for the Telsa to come to life? Hint – they have been working on it for more than three years.
I will wait the 3 years and be very grateful the GM is taking the time to do it right. No body wants this car out more than GM. If they could produce it sooner and still do a good job they would. As an engineer I am really suprised that they can get it done in only three years given all the new issues they have to deal with.
Nov 15th, 2007 (1:49 pm)‘Production begins in November 2010′ – total joke.
You want the best question? The one that reveals the truth, but no one will ask.
Ask Bob this, “When can I expect to walk into my Chevy dealership and see a Volt I could purchase?” He would run for the hills, or spew so much double-talk it would make your head spin.
The truth is Bob, our loyalty is fickle. We are the cutting edge, we want a electric car in our driveway, and we want it first. Not just because of $$$ or the environment, but because we like to be smug bastards.
If a 4 seat 100 mile electric car or Volt-ish hybrid (under 30k) comes out first, THAT car will do all the selling, THAT car will get all the praise, THAT car will be the pioneer. The Volt will be a mere footnote.
People aren’t stupid, they will see what GM is doing here. Of course, GM is also not stupid. So rest assured, the ‘waiting list’ everyone has been clamouring for (with fat deposit) will be out very soon…it will be the only way GM can be aguaranteed of your business…in 2012.
Nov 15th, 2007 (2:50 pm)It sure is a shame we have to take the good and the bad on this site. Oh well, that’s life and we have to consider the source.
Nov 15th, 2007 (4:08 pm)[quote comment="14845"]It sure is a shame we have to take the good and the bad on this site. Oh well, that’s life and we have to consider the source.[/quote]
Two sides of any coin is always good.
And if GM/Lutz (et al) does read this website I would rather them read what we think their deficiencies are have them try to fix them if they can…rather than them just reading posts fawning over them, thinking what they do will have no reprocussions. (sp?)
Personally, I am willing to cut a cheque upfront if they say I can have one by Spring 2011.
I am also terrified that they are going to make me plunk down the cash to get on ‘a list’ with no hard promises on what I am getting or when.
Nov 15th, 2007 (4:50 pm)I characterized Toyota as a dysfunctional company a month ago, and if it is true that they are claiming that the VOLT will only have a 10 mile range, they are either confusing the VOLT with the 2009 Saturn Vue Greenline plug-in, or have completely flipped their septenagerian wigs. A bit of advice to Toyota execs : stop and think before opening mouth; better yet, keep mouth closed and foot on ground. You are embarrassing everyone.
Nov 15th, 2007 (5:41 pm)kent,
I may not always agree with your comments …but I really get a kick out of some of them like #40.
Thanks
Nov 15th, 2007 (11:19 pm)The norm used to be five years to bring a new vehicle to market.
I’m willing to wait the three years – for the opportunity to reallocate my cash flow (from the Middle East) and for a greener Earth.
Nov 16th, 2007 (12:06 am)Regarding Volvo C30… see http://tinyurl.com/3atvsk and http://www.edmunds.com/volvo/c30/2008/index.html for pricing of the 2008 gasoline (with the smaller engine)… base MSRP is $23.5k.
So I would expect the series hybrid version with 4 in wheel hub electric motors and a big enough battery for 60 mile electric only range, maybe it will be priced around $30k?
Note that the C30 is a 2 door hatchback, so my guess is it’s also going to be smaller than the 4-door Chevy Volt?
I love my current Volvo (S70 T5), but I don’t think I want to drive a car that I may not be able to fit in the back seat myself. Will have to wait and see I guess (or go sit in the current C30 now at a dealership)
Nov 16th, 2007 (11:23 am)Jeff M., #43:
Yeah, I think Chevy is on the right track with the 4 door configuration. I really doubt that I could sell a 2 door at home. I guess there’s a weight penalty, but part of the purpose of the whole hybrid thing is to tap dance around the weight issue.
The Insight was an engineering jewel, but the Prius, 1000 pounds heavier, sells.
Nov 16th, 2007 (11:56 pm)I saw both cars today at the L.A. Auto show and both have very small back seats. The Volt did have four doors but not really made for adults, mainly kids or anyone under 5 1/2 feet tall is my guess.
Nov 17th, 2007 (12:00 am)Haha. I knew the Volt wasn’t coming out until 2011. As much as I would like GM to get their heads pulled out, they are miserably failing again. I swear some of the comments that are typed on here, you would swear people are right out of GM’s PR camp or there are some seriously misguided souls. It’s hard for me to believe that there are people who are willing to put down a deposit on a vehicle that they have no idea what the real specs. are and one that is not going to be out for 3 YEARS!! In 3 years, there are going to be a number of hybrid/plug-in/electric vehicle available, the Volt will be forgotten and GM will have gone bankrupt. 2011 is too late GM. Why don’t you just sell the Hummer plant and get back to producing the EVs? That would be a real “green” car company that would have soaring stock prices.
Nov 17th, 2007 (5:07 am)Dj,
I had wondered who will beat GM to the market with a 40 mile plugin.
The only one I can find is the Henry Ford(Volvo) C30. Many manufacturers will put out a 20 mile plugin but their range is too small to dominate the market. Or alternatively they dont have the production capacity.
Henry appears to be ahead but still hasnt demonstrated a prototype Please tell me if Im wrong.
Nov 17th, 2007 (3:47 pm)wirenutjd, #45:
Ouch! Don’t tell my wife! If it at least has 4 doors, I think I can sell it, even if the back seat is a little skimpy.
D.J., #45:
Alas, there is a lot in what you say. I was just thinking this morning, for about the 1000th time, that, if GM doesn’t come up with some higher mileage options to bridge the gap until the Volt arrives, they may not be around to see it.
If I could buy an Aveo or a Cobalt with the same combined city/highway mileage as a Versa or a Fit, I would do it right now, and drive it until the Volt gets here.
I’ll be darned, however, if I’ll buy a 25 mpg combined Aveo. Back when I used to pay attention to Fastlane, I used to suggest all the time that they tweak the driveline, weight and aero of the Aveo and/or the Cobalt to make a high mileage special. The Aveo is actually lighter than the Yaris or the Fit, so what’s the problem? Maybe the 2009? Rick Lupori on the Fastlane blog famously said that the Aveo was a good car in search of a driveline.
I keep offering to put down a deposit because I am willing to take the risk to do a tiny bit to help GM survive as a viable entity. It’s that important to me. If they fold up in the meantime, at least I will have the satisfaction of knowing that I did my best.
I think that’s what this whole blog is about at the end of the day.
Jan 3rd, 2008 (2:28 pm)Watching CNBC today… GM’s stock price is down today, with the reason cited being GM’s Wagner saying something about the Volt not likely to start production in 2010
Could be a good chance to buy the stock on the dip
fwiw, this came out today when December car sales numbers came out, pushing Ford down to #3 and Toyota up to #2. Toyota was also the only one with sales up for 2007 (up 2.something%, GM sales down 6%+, and Ford a whopping down 12%+)