“Project Better Place” Electric Car Charging Company Launches with $200 Million in Funding
A new start-up company announced its launch yesterday. This company is called “Project Better Place. Their idea is to create a subscription-based charging system for plug-in electric cars. This system would operate like a cell phone network, driver’s could roam anywhere, plug-in and charge their cars where it is convenient. They would be billed from the Project Better Place network who would have arrangements with multiple local utilities.
The company hopes to set up charging centers where one can drive in and fill up with electricity automatically, or for longer drives, battery exchange depots.
In another twist, they see an opportunity aligning themselves with electric carmakers (apparently they are in talks with five) Just like you can get a cheap cell phone when you sign up with one of the wireless carriers, you could get a less expensive lease for electric cars that have signed up with Project Better Place.
The company is headed by Shai Agassi, former SAP software president and is half funded by two Israeli companies. The location for this project rollout is yet undisclosed but likely to target high density population areas beginning in three countries, initial testing is to begin in 2008, and 100,000 car enrollment is expected by the end of 2010.
When you listen to this guy talk, you get the idea this will be a VERY BIG DEAL. Indeed it is the highest capital funding for a greentech company to date.
CNBC Video: (LINK)
Project Better Place Presentation (LINK)
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25 Responses to ““Project Better Place” Electric Car Charging Company Launches with $200 Million in Funding”
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October 30th, 2007 at 1:43 am
This strikes me as a way to scam people without them knowing it. It would be much, much better to develop and sell the technology for cars to communicate with the grid and have the grid managers know whose car is whose with some for of internal ID so cars can plug in anywhere and deal with their own electricity. I would prefer advanced V2G technology for my Volt so I could participate in providing grid services that would provide cashflow to me, as is being developed by the DOE, PG-n-E, Austin Energy, Google, and others. And I would prefer for companies like this to put their money into increasing renewable energy capacity for the grid to make our electricity cleaner and not keep us dependent as if we will have never given up internal combustion cars. This also demonstrates to me why BEVs are inferior designs to RxEVs and PHEVs. If you have an onboard range-extender, you never have to change out the batteries, or worry at all really, in order to drive distance. I don’t see this company’s business plans as a solution to anything, instead I see it as another prospective problem for us, the consumers. “Project better place” is like “healthy forest initiative”: it sounds good because its designed to sound that way, but when you really know about it, you get a lemon-face over the whole idea. I’m for V2G as the way of the future, not another cell phone bill.
October 30th, 2007 at 1:43 am
“The location for this project rollout is yet undisclosed but likely to target high density population areas beginning in three countries, initial testing is to begin in 2008, and 100,000 car enrollment is expected by the end of 2010.”
I bet Canada isn’t on the list…and even if it was…my home city of Winnipeg most likely won’t be included…
October 30th, 2007 at 5:01 am
Two days ago, the newspapers here in Denmark reported on “The comeback of the Electric Car”. They had found out that the Danish government is in contact with an unknown company that will invest heavily in setting up charging stations AND deliver electric cars. Copenhagen is targeted to be the EV capital of the world.
Sounds like this could be BetterPLC as Denmark is a small country AND we pay 180% tax on car except for EVs that have 0% tax.
It was reported that this company would pay and set up 500.000 charging stations if they can get exclusivity for X years. Another term for the deal should be that the Danish government cannot suddenly start taxing EVs.
No matter what I find this very interesting. Anything that can get us away from the dependency on oil is good and even if this project does not succeed it does put focus on the issue!
Regards,
Danny
October 30th, 2007 at 6:49 am
I don’t think this is really a “scam” just a way for some private company to make money on charging stations. The only thing I don’t like about it is, that instead of putting the cost of deploying charging stations by the gov’t (and hence, everybody’s tax dollars), it’s putting the cost of charging stations only on those who drive the EVs. Environmentalists will buy a EV for the environment, everybody else will buy for gas-free commutes. If the cost of a gas fill-up is replaced by a monthly service charge it will make the adoption of EV cars less appealing.
Project Better Place? More like Project Make People Who Want a Better Place Give Us Money.
Okay, I think you’re right now, it’s a scam.
October 30th, 2007 at 7:40 am
OK, let’s fast-forward 10-20 years. Hopefully the majority of cars will be electric vehicles with range extenders, or EVRXs like the Volt. People who have a garage or driveway will plug in every night on their own power. Most employers will offer free charging as a benefit. This should cover 80-90% of our driving needs.
So what customers would Project Better Place target? Perhaps someone who doesn’t have a garage or driveway? Most apartments and condos can install their own privately secured charging stations. This doesn’t seem like a big deal. And for those few times when you need to go on a long trip, the range extender will cover this. That’s what it’s for.
I beleive all this talk about a new electric charging infrastructure could actually be harmful. All we really need is the cars. Once we have a wide variety of EVRXs to choose from, sales will take off and everything else will fall into place. But if people somehow think they need to wait for an elaborate charging infrastructure, this could actually slow things down.
October 30th, 2007 at 7:44 am
I think it’s a waste of time for Americans to even discuss this idea. In a smaller and more densely populated area (Israel) maybe it’s worth looking in to.
A truly Better Way would be to invest in quick -charge batteries rather than hotswapping. It sounds expensive, time consuming, and heavy.
On another note, I’d imagine whatever country they plan to implement this thing there’s political backing…you’d have to. Another reason this won’t happen in the U.S.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:07 am
This is a great idea…. for people without electrical sockets.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:22 am
I suppose you’re right that it’s probably good for people in small countries Dave B. My personal perspective is not only American, but Texan, so I’m not used to thinking of local as a small area. But I also think that a move towards this sort of economics will actually be harmful for the development of our electrically-charged fleet. And I’m not sure that the “it’d probably be good in small countries” argument stands up either. Places with large amounts of installed wind and solar power, as well as wave power in the near future, (intermittents as they’re referred to by experts) would be the ones with a need for fleet electrification with V2G installed into the grid. Without an electrified vehicle fleet it’s pretty much understood that wind power cannot exceed 20% of installed capacity. V2G, if the entire fleet is wired up, can bring that number much higher. So high in fact, that only pre-existing alternative infrastructure, like solar, geothermal, hydro, wave power, and whatever else is left would fill in the gap. One of the reasons places like Iceland are pushing for hydrogen is that it’s actually a more centralized and less efficient form of V2G, and instead of going directly from the cars, the grid storage is found in the refueling stations. V2G is the future. PHEVs and RxEVs are the future. BEVs and subscription charging are detours to where we need to go.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Lithium ion battery packs are so expensive, and the value of each could differ significantly based on age and cycle experience. I would not feel comfortable trading a pack to any sort of service station. Also, because they are so expensive, if they are that easy to remove there is the high potential for theft and robbery.
There is no way this could work for anything other than lead-acid batteries. Even then, people would be highly suspicious of what they are getting.
When lithium-ion battery packs are cheap enough that we wouldn’t care, they would probably also have fast recharge times. If service stations hooked up to the main grid, 16kWh packs could easily charge in a few minutes and pure electrics charge in 10 minutes.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:09 am
I agree that the economics certainly doesn’t favor the consumer. It’s one hell of a lot cheaper to recharge the batteries
yourself at your house. And I see recharge
receptacles sprouting up everywhere as soon as plug-ins hit the streets in numbers - at shopping malls, grocery stores, work sites (office buildings, just as happened when the EV-1 was running around So California)
and those receptacles will likely be free, or at most a few pennies. Project Better Place should be called Project Unneccessary Expense. It also seems to rely on the notion that an all-electric system is far superior 40 mile range plug-in systems, which is not true at all. What’s more, a nation of plug-ins could have practically all of their liquid fuel requirements satisfied using biofuels. So now there wouldn’t be any gain at all by going all-electric. And his system doesn’t decrease the cost of batteries - it has to increase the overall costs by piling on lots of overhead. Unlike a utility, which can produce electricity using nuclear for 1.72 cents per kilowatt hour and save me 15 cents over the costs of my own horribly inefficient solar roof, this system
achieves no economies due to either scale or greater efficiency. I’m not ready to buy stock in this company is it goes public.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Another point to keep in mind about BEVs compared to RxEVs and PHEVs: batteries are the most expensive part of an electric vehicle. That will likely always be true. Furthermore, batteries are also a major source of weight. And when most of it is unused capacity, and it’s there for extended range, it far better to have a RANGE EXTENDER that can use the old refueling infrastructure that we’re used to. I see no benefits coming to consumer from this service, unless they instead develop a technology or methodology that will allow our cars to carry an ID that can be read whenever it’s plugged in. Then that can be used for V2G services, and so on. The idea of stores offering free electricity for parking in their lots in order to promote customer traffic at the stores, that can be worked out with the utility and not some middle man. We have enough middle men in our economy, EVs offer a direct link to your friendly local utility. Utilties which are often owned by our local governments. Which means it is truly owned by us. I support the development of the technology that would enable this service, but not this service itself.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
The battery swap idea has huge logistical problems.
It requires the batteries to be leased from a few major players.
It requires the batteries to be easy to remove, but still secure. Secure and easy to remove are at odds with each other. Which is likely at odds with crash protecting the batteries (like placing them in the tunnel in the Volt).
Just like gas stations sell Regular, Super, and Super Plus gas. Electric battery swap stations would be required to hold a range of batteries covering a range of lease agreements. If they don’t have a charged battery of the right type covered under the right lease agreement you cannot swap. Or you have to wait for them to charge one.
Unless the swap stations hold a lot of excess batteries (very expensive), then the charge rate must roughly match the time period between vehicles pulling into the swap station. If you can charge that fast, then why bother swapping.
If you cannot rely on swapping batteries you need a backup solution. Either quick charging to range extender. Both of these solutions appear to be better.
Since the batteries cost a significant part of the total cost of the vehicle, this is akin to having lots of quick rental cars, where you could drive a car 100 miles, hand it in, and pick up a new car for the next 100 miles. Obviously that wouldn’t work either.
For slow charge stations, think either free as a perk, or charged like a parking fee (e.g. coin operated).
So I only see any point in having fast charging stations. Of course 80% would just charge overnight, especially if off peak rates are available. But fast charge stations would still be useful.
October 30th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
All this talk about RxEV vs pure EV’s has me thinking… Does someone know the approximate weight and cost of the Volt’s ICE? If we were to replace the weight of the ICE with litium-ion batteries, how many more “all-electric” miles would we get? That’s a good way to determine the ‘value’ of our RxEV. Anyone care to take a stab at this?
October 30th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Andy: sure you have a point. However, it is the cost of the ICE vs the cost of the extra batteries that is the dominant factor.
Also if the battery costs $7000. Then for an extra 40 miles which you only need 20% of the time you are paying an extra $7000. For the next 40 miles (80 to 120 mile range) you are paying yet another $7000, but only use that maybe 10% of the time. The range extender (ICE plus generator and controls) probably costs only about as much as the first extra battery, but gives in effect unlimited range, not just an additional 40.
As for weight of the ICE, I don’t know, but including all the overhead parts I would GUESS about 300lb. I base this on my old 750cc motor bike weighing about 200Kg (440lb).
October 30th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
A different option that is along the lines of “Project Better Place” is one that exists in some localities already: abandon the basic idea of private car ownership altogether and have a subscription based car rental system. The company I could find on Wikipedia described on this basis is Zipcar. (If others here know more about this system, then fill in the gaps for other readers.) That system would probably also work well in a different vehicle environment. If a massive fleet system like that were to be in place, then the subscription rental company may be able to better benefit from holding the EVs and RxEVs and providing grid services and reducing the cost of car usage. Such a company could provide subscriptions for their fleet, and provide access to cars, while promoting ride sharing, insuring the cars and drivers themselves, and including grid services to enhance their bottom line. If such a company were to develop that system, then they could own EVs and establish customized customer relationships, and manage the income from the V2G services. That would be a much better subscription service than the one mentioned in this posting. And if it can make car usage cost significantly less than personal ownership, people may choose to drop the idea of owning and maintaining cars themselves altogether. That’s another idea. But again, I’m a huge advocate of V2G concept integration, and believe that private ownership of BEVs to not be the best option under any circumstance. I would also prefer to see Tesla develop their future product line to have RxEVs than just BEVs. That’s my stance on the issue.
October 30th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Steve, Zipcars work inside cities where folks already don’t own cars, because there is no place to park them (at least not at an affordable price).
October 30th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
I realize that. But at the same time, in the context here, people already have access to electricity. It’s those three-hole places in walls. I’m not advocating either for anyone living in Texas, which is where I am.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
god i hate whiners! get a life…there are people out there, like this company, who are trying to make things work, and all you can do is whine that canada won’t be on the list or whatever other whining you are into in the above statements…
October 31st, 2007 at 12:15 am
Robert Ackerlind and D.J.:
Please take the time to read the hundreds of posts Lyle has made on this site since January and see if you change you mind. I have been following this site closely since it started and have read them all. The Volt technology is brilliant and GM knows it. Gas prices keep going up and GM has to change their business model in order to compete in the future. My opinion is that it is highly probable GM will build this car.
I am currently in need of a new car and can’t wait until 2010 for the Volt to come out. I am going to support GM’s in their Volt effort by purchasing one of their current hybrids within the next couple of months. I will trade it in on a Volt in 2010. I can hardly wait.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:14 am
Not everything is about America and not all profit is to be made here. Think about China for example, a region which is just starting to become a car consuming culture and which has little infrastructure to support it. Among its infrastructural deficiencies is its inadequate network of gas stations and of private garages with outlets.
Sure, in the US it will be the utilities that benefit from the sale of electricity as the transportation grid becomes gradually diminated by vehicles running at least mostly on grid-derived power. They’ll rake it in using all those off peak hours that now go to waste as unused capacity. But the opporunities in other parts of the world are significant. It would need to be a rapid recharge system I think. Sounds more up the line of GBT or ALTI than A123 or CBAK at this point in time, for those like me who like to handicap the battery players.
Steve, here in the Chicago region we have http://www.igocars.org/ a similar concept. And yes, using EVs (BEVs, RxEVs, and PHEVs all) would make wonderful sense.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:52 pm
I was about to accept this at face value until I read all of these thoughtful and insightful comments. Even if everyone does not agree all the time, it is really impressive and encouraging to see all of the thought and work that is being put into this.
You guys are great! Blog on!
May 5th, 2008 at 9:04 am
i read in their forums a reply to people asking questions. Now, they may very well be legitimte, but it raised serious questions to legitimacy, when the fellow claimed in his response that the in wheel motors used, are 650hp. Was not clear if this is each wheel, or total power of both motors. Either way, that is far fetched. Especially considering that the poser was did not imply anything out of the ordinary of the motor, and was stressing more the storage system as being unique. Just to put things into perspective; 650 Hp, is roughly 484kiloWatts. I was looking at a motor/ generator very recently, 450HP, which weighs about 200kg (aprox 440lb)– It was claimed the wheels were less than 23 kg each. (about 50lb each). The storage unit and electronics apparently weigh less than one wheel. …… I may be doing these people injustice, but this raised my concerns about the claims…… If you are an investor, make sure you research VERY WELL before this. If you dont believe me, just do some more reasearch on cars with electric motors. even from some of the big boys using inwheel motors, have used only 25kw in wheel motors (4 wheels).. so, be really cautious before dishing out your money.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Ooops, its getting a little late in this part of the world, and my weariness has led to some slight errors in what i just posted.
I meant that each motor that these people supply, (it was claimed in the post), as being 23kg each of the two in wheel motors.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:09 am
http://www.projectbetterplace.com/forum/open-forum/smart-electric-retrofit#comment-299
This is where it was claimed
August 26th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Hi Guys
This system seems alot more sensible to me. You could see these posts sited at supermarkets or carparks for electric top ups when you are away from home.
http://www.parkandpower.co.uk