Toyota continues to expose its weaknesses whenever their hybrid program is compared to GM’s E-Flex effort.
In today’s report by Joe White in the Wall Street Journal, Toyota was portrayed as taking a more “cautious” approach into hybrid development than GM. They continue to describe lithium-ion batteries as still not being ready for them.
Toyota hybrid project manager Yoshitaka Asakura went so far as to say that consumers might not be ready to accept plugging in their cars, and even admitted his own wife wouldn’t do so.
He also expressed skepticism that the Volt could drive electric only for 40 miles noting that the batteries would have to “fill up the trunk” to do so. (true, if they were NiMh).
This guy may not be a top Toyota exec, but he sure can put his foot in his mouth with the best of them. His wife might not be ready to plug-in, but are you?
Source (WSJ)
This entry was posted on Monday, October 22nd, 2007 at 7:37 pm and is filed under Competitors, PHEV. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Oct 22nd, 2007 (7:42 pm)I remember back in 1996, there was this guy at work who used to transfer his music CDs onto his computer. Come on, who would use their computer to listen to music?
Well, it only took a few years for that to go mainstream. Plugging in will probably take even less.
Oct 22nd, 2007 (7:49 pm)GM learned the hard way what happens to the arrogant. Now it’s Toyota’s turn…
Oct 22nd, 2007 (7:52 pm)Isn’t it interesting that Toyota is making marketing decisions for U.S. consumers based of their Japanese wives
tastes?
Oct 22nd, 2007 (7:57 pm)After setting world records for vehicle recalls in 06, and soon to be 07, I’d think they’ve got their hands full.
Buuut..if they say it’s not possible, then maybe we all just ought to set our sights on a nice new Prius.
M.
Oct 22nd, 2007 (7:57 pm)::sigh:: the PR debacle continues.
Oct 22nd, 2007 (8:41 pm)Maybe Toyota could turn this PR blunder into a positive by making a new commercial and stealing a line from Geico:
“Toyota Prius — so easy to plug in… a woman could do it!”
OK, maybe not [ducking for cover]
Oct 22nd, 2007 (9:12 pm)“Mr. Asakura said Toyota is concerned customers might not accept a plug-in hybrid electric car that has to be recharged every day, despite enthusiasm from environmental groups and electric-vehicle enthusiasts.”
Wow… that is a stunning statement coming from Toyota. I would have expected someone from GM or Ford to say something like that a couple of years ago, but not today. Americans are waking up to the following realities.
1) Oil went to 90 bucks a barrell. Gas is headed WAY over 3 bucks a gallon
2) We pour billions of US taxpayer money into stabilizing the middle east every year (and whether you like it or not, it is mostly to ensure that we still get our OIL)
3) We send billions of dollars to buy oil from countries that use it to (at best) sponsor anti-american sentiment around the world and (at worst) sponsor terrorism. Do you think Iran would be a threat if they had no oil? What about pysco Venezuela?
4) Air pollution and Global warming. Not necessarily the brand that Al Gore pushes, but the acknowledgment’s that something needs to be done.
GM got it’s wake up call a couple years ago and is moving in the right direction. I can’t believe that Toyota keeps on throwing out the negative PR on plug-ins. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Oct 22nd, 2007 (9:24 pm)My wife does not like the smell of petroleum so much that she complains if I stop for gas while she is in the car. She hates even being at a gas station because of the smell.
Another benefit of the Volt: electricity does not smell bad!
Oct 22nd, 2007 (9:40 pm)There is a little to be said about “being ready” to plug in.
If you park on the street you might not be ready.
If you park in your driveway you might not be ready.
If you park in your garage you might want to add an electrical outlet in a more convenient place.
So you’ve got 2 years to run those electrical cables.
Presumably such instances of not being ready would apply equally to the Toyota exec and his wife. So I do hope that the Toyota exec was not implying that his wife was too dim to plug in. If that’s the case, she might be sufficiently pis**ed with him to go and buy a GM Volt — sweet.
Oct 22nd, 2007 (9:55 pm)I think it would make sense for GM to find some way to automatically hook the car up to the power. For example, when the car parks in proximity to a “charging station”, the car automatically opens up the “power cap” and the charging station could automatically guide a power cord into it. The tech is there an cheap for that (cf. the Roomba docking station).
People can be appallingly lazy. It would be a shame to let that get in the way of such a transformative technology.
Oct 22nd, 2007 (10:30 pm)It’s sad really to see Toyota slighting PHEV technology for purely economic reasons. I am sure their engineers are secretly on overdrive now playing catchup to E-Flex and the Volt.
This is like a drug company attempting to discredit a working cancer treatment just because its rival own the patent for the procedure.
This is truely shameful behavior in my opinion…
Oct 22nd, 2007 (10:43 pm)Won’t plugging in be easier than going to the gas station?
Once things are set up, it will probably take about 30 seconds every night to plug in, and 30 seconds every morning to unplug. So that’s 7 minutes a week.
By comparison, going to the gas station seems to take around 10-15 minutes a week.
So I think plugging in will actually make my life easier.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (5:36 am)I asked my wife and loves the idea of plugging it in and not having to stop at the gas station. Her only concern: Forgetting to plug the car in when she pulls into the garage.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (6:06 am)Not plugging in is disloyal. There, I said it. Neither the United States nor Japan can afford to continue dependence on foreign oil. (The Japanese started their war with the US over oil 60 years ago, by the way) It’s also bad economics and pathetic laziness. If what the Toyota hybrid manager said about his wife is true, then I wonder if he knows what things are supposed to be secret about people, and what things he should feel free about blurting to the press. Just a little notice, this sort of thing is not one of them. Also, don’t let the press know if your wife won’t turn on the TV if she has to get up to get the remote.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (6:41 am)Rashiid Amul Says:
“Her only concern: Forgetting to plug the car in when she pulls into the garage.”
That’s a concern of mine as well. I know I’ll space out and forget to plug in once in a while, but the range extender makes this a non-issue. That’s why I will never buy a battery electric vehicle without a range extender.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (6:45 am)Nick said: “I think it would make sense for GM to find some way to automatically hook the car up to the power.”
Perhaps the electronics experts out there can tell us — Is wireless a possibility?
Oct 23rd, 2007 (6:52 am)Estero Says:
“Perhaps the electronics experts out there can tell us — Is wireless a possibility?”
As I understand it, wireless power connections only work at very low power and are very inefficient.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (7:02 am)A follow on to my previous posting.
I seem to recall reading somewhere recently that the technology will soon be here that will allow laptop computers to recharged via wireless. If so, why not EV’s?
I can visualize GM including a “coded” adapter with each vehicle. It would be plugged into an electric outlet and recharging would occur anytime the vehicle is within “range” and the ignition is “off”.
Is this science fiction or a possiblity? I don’t know!
Oct 23rd, 2007 (7:03 am)Thanks Dave! That’s the kind of information I was look for.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (7:14 am)You guys can bust on Toyota all you like for what 1 guy said, but it was about 3-5 years ago that a GM exec was quoted to saying that hybrids were “a passing phase”, in the same article he went on to say GM would improve SUV MPG by 25%. Big shot was wrong on both counts. And was this Toyota exec talking about Japan or America, I know in Japan that people are MUCH more conscientious about the environment, however, Americans are lazy and want instant gratification and don’t want their car demanding their attention every time they park in the garage.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (7:29 am)Special K, “I know in Japan that people are MUCH more conscientious about the environment, however, Americans are lazy and want instant gratification and don’t want their car demanding their attention every time they park in the garage.”
Not all Americans are lazy. Not all Americans are careless about the environment. I have absolutely no issue plugging my car in at home or at work. Instant gratification can be real nice, depending on what it is that we are talking about. I am an American born and raised. I’m not lazy, I care about the environment and I believe that many people on this blog are the same.
Special K, no offense was taken by me with your comments. I just wanted to point out that not all of us are what you say we are.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (7:55 am)No worries here, I’m happy to plug in my car (as well as my wife’s). For the record.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (7:58 am)I would think that plugging in would be instant gratification. It is much faster than filling up at the gas station, not smelly, it is less expensive and it frees us from dependence on oil. What could be more gratifying?
Oct 23rd, 2007 (8:09 am)I own two GM cars right now and am a big GM fan. But until I can buy a Volt i keep thinking about the EV-1. GM could pull the plug on the volt at any time. I hope Toyota doesn’t know something we don’t know.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (8:31 am)Drake,
Three years from now may be different, but currently Toyota is correct.
Perhaps the correct analogy is that GM is like a drug company promoting a cure for cancer before they actually know if such a thing exists. Toyota is saying that they have tried the current version of GM’s cure and it doesn’t work.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (8:51 am)I can’t wait to plug my volt in as well! I love the thought of not having to go get gas.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (9:27 am)From an Electronic Engineer: Wireless charinging for EV’s – TOTALLY impossible. Nikola Tesla tried it years ago and trip the power of a town and nearly killed himself. The power to charge an EV’s batteries is just too much to be transmitted wirelessly. Automatic charger that plugs itself in – Definite possibility. Forget to plug in – I think there should be some sensor in your garage and when you pull up it tell the Car to ring a chime to let you know you must charge.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (9:31 am)Also: Why does Toyota say a plug-in car is not possible when both them and GM had running prototypes in the form of production EV-1’s and RAV4 EV’s?????Some of those RAV4 EV’s are still running!!!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV#Wearable_Items
Oct 23rd, 2007 (9:47 am)The first suggestion I made on the original GM Volt blog was to have GM offer a docking station which the vehicle could be parked above and would be activated by tire pressure. Once parked,a little probe (charger arm) would lift up and connect to a charging receptacle located undeneath the vehicle… Good to have in bad weather.
Also suggested to change the Volt name to “REEV” (Range Extended Electric Vehicle). An American REEVolution ;>)
Oct 23rd, 2007 (10:05 am)Regarding the Toyota MRG’s comments, std of living may have something to do with this. Despite the fact that Japan is one of the world’s richest countries, their std. of living isn’t what ours is. Believe it or not that individual and his wife probably live in an apartment on the 3rd floor, as do most that make less than he does. This definitely makes a difference.
If the EV + RE takes hold, then technically speaking the “hybrid” may in fact be just a passing phase. Like Lutz, I do not consider the Volt a hybrid of any classification.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (10:43 am)OK, you know how people hang tennis balls from the roof of the garage so that they don’t pull in too far? Just hang the freakin’ power cord from the ceiling and you’ll be fine. Honestly, after about the third time that you pull out of the garage and hear the range extender kick on, you’ll be conditioned to plug in when you pull in.
With change comes uncertainty, which is replaced by new behavior patterns. After six months of owning one of these, I’m betting that no one has a problem remembering to plug in. Do not waste one engineering cycle trying to come up with some crappy automatic plug in feature or docking station…sheesh!
Oct 23rd, 2007 (10:51 am)I agree with the last part of your statement. No need to pay more money for robots because we believe we’re too lazy to plug in. But I also really, really like your idea about hanging a cord to plug in with so we don’t have to route one through the garage. I, sadly, would never have thought of that on my own.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (10:53 am)GXT – The EV1 is proof that the technology needed to produce the Volt is here today. The EV1, using technology from the 1990s got 75-150 miles per charge. The Volt only claims 40 miles per charge.
There is no technological reason standing in way of the Volt’s production.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (10:54 am)I agree with the previous 2 comments – how many americans plug in thier cell phones every night – I dont even think about it it is just second nature. I will be excited to plug in my volt and im sure most people will be as well even people who dont know what it is yet. It will become second nature – and if you forget… You can still use the car.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (11:04 am)Optimistic MF, #31:
That’s great. We do have a tennis ball hanging from the rafters of our garage, because it’s the only way to judge the distance closely enough to get our 95 Impala SS to fit. Otherwise, you either kiss the wall in front, or hit the car with the garage door when it closes. We also have a bit of tape on the windshield. When you hit the tape with the tennis ball, you are centered in the stall enough to get out of the car!
As you suggest, we’ll just hang the plug down next to the tennis ball. When it clicks on the windshield, hopefully we’ll snap out of brain fade and plug the damn car in. Well done.
As to Toyota, I love it! GM desparately needs to make a world class engineering breakthrough, as Toyota did with the Prius. The longer Toyota (and Honda) is unable to respond, the longer GM will hold the technical high ground. If what this guy is saying is really true, they are looking to hand the engineering halo to GM on a plate. Lord knows I hope it happens.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (12:09 pm)Steven and Noel,
Thank you, to paraphrase Julius from Pulp Fiction, I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity…
I’m so ready to ditch my old car that I drive 50-100 miles a week and get one of these cars. I guess I got a little worked up when people were talking about engineering wireless or automated solutions to the problem of…wait for it…plugging in your car! On the very same thread where Rashiid pointed out that not all Americans are lazy and want instant gratification no less!
Let’s get this technology into the hands of as many people as possible and then we can worry about fancy new aftermarket stuff.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (1:48 pm)Technologically feasible has never been the question. Just because you can build it does not mean you can mass produce it at a price all can afford. Making a battery pack, mass producing it & integrating it are very differnt things. When I worked in Aerospace we has a kick “A” anti radiation missle that hit every objective, problem only had one woman that could put the antennae together by hand, never mastered the ability to mass produce it on the factory level to my knowledge. GM has a “price goal” but until it nails down the final design, locks in contracts for parts and the assembly instructions/process it really will not know what it cost to build one. Price is the only holdup! Leave the autocharger device to after market. Perhaps GM can build some internal electrical access point to allow easy retrofit from under the chassis but leave the details to after market for those who need pampering.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (3:07 pm)I asked my wife if she would plug it in and she said she would but I would forget.
She is probbaly right, I drive around with the fuel tank on empty.
That automatic docking system may be important.
If hydrogen became common and cheap would we bother to plug the vehicle in?
Oct 23rd, 2007 (3:40 pm)“Oh Boo Hoo, I’m too lazy to plug in a car, even though it’ll save me thousands of dollars per year”
Pathetic..Canadians plug in their car ALL THE TIME during the winter….we have to, otherwise our car WILL NOT GO.
It is not too big of a stretch to plug-in the car all year for Canadians. I for one can’t wait to plug in my car at night and flip the bird to OPEC.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (4:57 pm)Hey Lyle, Where did you get that photo for spot_woman_plug.jpg? Is this a stock photo or something of your own?
Oct 23rd, 2007 (7:25 pm)I plug in my cell in the kitchen EVERY time I come home. It is always charged and ready to go. Habitual. If you can’t do that, then you are DEFINITELY not ready for the Volt, and I don’t want to hear a word about OPEC or BIG OIL.
Go buy a Prius, the car where he’d like to charge it, but…. “his wife won’t let him”.
M.
Oct 23rd, 2007 (8:54 pm)Dave G.
Gave me a chuckle.
I couldn’t resist that pic.
Found it on the web
Oct 24th, 2007 (12:50 pm)I heard some news bit on the radio and they said the same stupid a$$ stuff. That it wasn’t clear if people were willing to switch over to a car that you are required to plug in. This was a guy that was suppose to know what he is talking about. UMMMM to all morons out there… YOU NEVER EVER HAVE TO PLUG IN A CHEVY VOLT!!!
Plugging in the Volt is an option that will save you money but if you forget half the time all that happens is you don’t save as much money!!!
Oct 28th, 2007 (6:14 pm)Toyota’s concept plug-in…
http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/electric-ideas-empty-the-tank/2007/10/24/1192941154248.html
Nov 4th, 2007 (5:13 pm)I drive less than 40 miles per day. Consequently I would be willing to pay more for the Volt due to much lower fuel costs, and something not often mentioned: No tune ups or oil changes.
Nov 21st, 2007 (11:51 am)Unless something better comes along, my next car will be a Series design like the Chevy Volt.
The parallel design embraces a car design with too many mechnical parts to be maintained and serviced.
I may even consider down sizing my second car to a commuter car like MDI’s Cat Car (www.theaircar.com). Anyone have opinions on this car?
Nov 22nd, 2007 (12:36 am)OK, for all of those lazy americans that don’t want to have to plug in their car I hate to let everyone know that wireless transfer of electricity is already an actuallity even though it is in its infancy. It has been done at MIT and their are already companies open for business that are investing and developing the technology. Just google wipower in the news section or go here http://www.designnews.com/article/CA6493325.html
Nov 30th, 2007 (12:36 pm)The beauty of the Volt is (as others here have pointed out) that it is not necessary to plug-in the car in order to drive it. If you forget, or get lazy, you just buy more gasoline, ethanol, etc. But there IS a major issue here, i.e., those people with limited self-discipline will not find the Volt to be cost effective, since they will run it on fuel, not electricity. Unfortunately, such self-discipline is in short supply in the USA, and that is a limitation on the long-term market for a car such as the Volt.
I foresee a market for plug-in reminder devices, and the car MUST have a lockout on the motor when it is plugged-in.
Jan 14th, 2008 (3:52 pm)In a turnabout, today Toyota announced it would have a PLUG-IN in 2010. See http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/business/14plug.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
That 2010 date however is for commercial customers.
May 26th, 2009 (3:37 am)I looked at this very seriously in regards to myself and what would I do or want to do as regards to plug-in .
This is rather interesting because I would be looking at two different types of cars so I can give two different points of view .
If I were to be driving a hybrid car I would not want it to be an extended range electric type . Instead I would want it to be a high mileage hybrid that at best could only go five or six miles on battery power alone . The most important thing for me would be that it could get up to highway speed of 60 mph easily and quickly on the capacitors and small battery and once it got to highway speed a half liter to one liter four cylinder high compression four cylinder engine gen-set would keep it going as long as there is gasoline available for it . This would give me about 80 miles travel per gallon using gasoline and have a two or three speed automatic transmission .
I could use this vehicle for my everyday vehicle and only gas it up once every two or three weeks with about 5 to six gallons of fuel .
I definitely would not want this vehicle to be a plug-in .
If I were to go where I ultimately would like to go then I would want a Cruze sized all electric vehicle with batteries installed in the engine compartment and through the counsel inside of the car ( the same as the Volt mules) I would want a strong bank of Maxwell capacitors built in under the back seat for acceleration and regenerative breaking but I also would want a little gen-set to provide heat in the winter and supply power for the A/C in the summer and when I say little I mean little , like 125 to 250 cc four cylinder liquid cooled propane , CNG , or gasoline fueled .
This kind of vehicle would have a driving range of around three hundred highway miles with out the gen-set and over 500 miles using the gen-set .
I wouldn’t mind plugging it in once a week to charge the batteries .