Comments on: More Fighting Words From Bob Lutz http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:07:32 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Doug Korthof http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-117784 Doug Korthof Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:42:50 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-117784 Toyota has delayed plug-in hybrids and EVs not because they don't have the battery, but because they can't USE the battery. GM sold control of the worldwide patent licensing rights to Texaco on oct. 10, 2000; six days later, their merger into Chevron was announced. Next year, Chevron funded a lawsuit against Toyota; a settlement was reached in Dec., 2002, which resulted in Toyota retroactively cancelling the Toyota RAV4-EV, which was last sold in Nov, 2002, and Toyota stopped making the EV-95 NiMH battery, which is now not available at ANY price. So the reason they are fooling with Lithium isn't because it's better, it's because Chevron-Ovonics-BAttery-SYStems ("COBASYS") will not allow use of NiMH batteries big enough to plug in. Now if GM helped Chevron kill the RAV4-EV, and stop the Electric car then, what makes you think it's changed its policies against the EV now? If it were serious, it would force Chevron to disgorge (they really can't patent-squat, legally) and use the proven NiMH. Wakeup. GM don't wanna. GM aint a gonna do it. Toyota has delayed plug-in hybrids and EVs not because they don’t have the battery, but because they can’t USE the battery. GM sold control of the worldwide patent licensing rights to Texaco on oct. 10, 2000; six days later, their merger into Chevron was announced. Next year, Chevron funded a lawsuit against Toyota; a settlement was reached in Dec., 2002, which resulted in Toyota retroactively cancelling the Toyota RAV4-EV, which was last sold in Nov, 2002, and Toyota stopped making the EV-95 NiMH battery, which is now not available at ANY price.

So the reason they are fooling with Lithium isn’t because it’s better, it’s because Chevron-Ovonics-BAttery-SYStems (”COBASYS”) will not allow use of NiMH batteries big enough to plug in.

Now if GM helped Chevron kill the RAV4-EV, and stop the Electric car then, what makes you think it’s changed its policies against the EV now? If it were serious, it would force Chevron to disgorge (they really can’t patent-squat, legally) and use the proven NiMH.

Wakeup.

GM don’t wanna. GM aint a gonna do it.

]]> By: Doug Korthof http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-117783 Doug Korthof Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:34:57 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-117783 I'd say it's LUTZ who's got egg on his face!! After all, who ran his car company into bankruptcy?? NOT Toyota. Which car company has a market value over $100 Billion? NOT GM! It's idiotic decisions such as those made by Lutz that has led to the most amazing example of corporate folly and failure, that took GM from a dominating position in 1959, to beggar status in 2009. Lutz, really, should keep his trap shut; we really should re-introduce the concept of "SHAME" into business, when you really, really screw up, as Lutz and Wagoner did, you need to hang your head and keep shut up. I’d say it’s LUTZ who’s got egg on his face!!

After all, who ran his car company into bankruptcy?? NOT Toyota.

Which car company has a market value over $100 Billion? NOT GM!

It’s idiotic decisions such as those made by Lutz that has led to the most amazing example of corporate folly and failure, that took GM from a dominating position in 1959, to beggar status in 2009.

Lutz, really, should keep his trap shut; we really should re-introduce the concept of “SHAME” into business, when you really, really screw up, as Lutz and Wagoner did, you need to hang your head and keep shut up.

]]> By: Ames Tiedeman http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-23054 Ames Tiedeman Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:51:40 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-23054 I hear that Honda is going electric big time in 2015. GM has them beat. Let's go GM! I hear that Honda is going electric big time in 2015. GM has them beat. Let’s go GM!

]]> By: Bosco Barnes http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-10184 Bosco Barnes Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:18:20 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-10184 Nano powders give you lung disease in use and to factory workings in mfg. Nano powders can go off easier via smaller failures. Nano powders fall into the pores of your skin and give you cancer in some formulations Very hard to mfg. in volume Unproven in volume use under the millionms of variables the auto market can generate. EV and PHEV market has too close margins and too early adopter requirement to risk failures and unknowns so "old school battries" are the only commercial option for launch. All require massive uptake to reduce costs and there are so many "new super batteries" that massive uptake of a single one is impossible. Nano powders give you lung disease in use and to factory workings in mfg.

Nano powders can go off easier via smaller failures.

Nano powders fall into the pores of your skin and give you cancer in some formulations

Very hard to mfg. in volume

Unproven in volume use under the millionms of variables the auto market can generate.

EV and PHEV market has too close margins and too early adopter requirement to risk failures and unknowns so “old school battries” are the only commercial option for launch.

All require massive uptake to reduce costs and there are so many “new super batteries” that massive uptake of a single one is impossible.

]]> By: Ames Tiedeman http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9975 Ames Tiedeman Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:44:39 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9975 GM will be pressuring Toyota hard in the next 5 years. I believe it will take some tim, but GM share in North America is headed over 30%. Gvie it until 2015 and watch it happen. The products GM has coming are too good to be anything less than huge winners. Watch and enjoy the re-birth of an American icon. GM will be pressuring Toyota hard in the next 5 years.

I believe it will take some tim, but GM share in North America is headed over 30%. Gvie it until 2015 and watch it happen.

The products GM has coming are too good to be anything less than huge winners.

Watch and enjoy the re-birth of an American icon.

]]> By: Tim http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9063 Tim Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:46:25 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9063 Apparently, fully automated manufacturing is the key to reducing costs. EnerDel uses a stacked cell design and everyone else including A123's wound design which is much harder to automate. Since the lines are fully automated, labor is not important so US based manufacturing is attractive. Check out their website and they have some impressive US based R&D, and manufacturing capabilities. http://www.enerdel.com/content/view/32/75/ I’ve also noticed that the battery setup on the Volt is depicted as blue rectangular flat “wafers” stacked side by side in the central tunnel and not cylinders. This looks like EnerDel’s design. Look at EnerDel’s corporate profile. 19% owned by Delphi! http://www.enerdel.com/content/view/26/40/ Their parent company Ener1 has extensive experience and DEEP pockets. Apparently, fully automated manufacturing is the key to reducing costs. EnerDel uses a stacked cell design and everyone else including A123’s wound design which is much harder to automate. Since the lines are fully automated, labor is not important so US based manufacturing is attractive.

Check out their website and they have some impressive US based R&D, and manufacturing capabilities.

http://www.enerdel.com/content/view/32/75/

I’ve also noticed that the battery setup on the Volt is depicted as blue rectangular flat “wafers” stacked side by side in the central tunnel and not cylinders. This looks like EnerDel’s design.

Look at EnerDel’s corporate profile. 19% owned by Delphi!

http://www.enerdel.com/content/view/26/40/

Their parent company Ener1 has extensive experience and DEEP pockets.

]]> By: Rashiid Amul http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9056 Rashiid Amul Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:00:45 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9056 Tim, thanks for that link. If what EnerDel says is true, seems to me this solves the "battery cost" problem. And at $1500, if a battery replacement is needed, it would be easily justifiable to me. To my knowledge, GM nor A123 has said how much the battery pack will cost, but I am expecting it to be very expensive especially since GM is talking about leasing it. But if EnerDel can do it $1500, why can't A123 do the same? Or am I missing something? Tim, thanks for that link. If what EnerDel says is true, seems to me this solves the “battery cost” problem. And at $1500, if a battery replacement is needed, it would be easily justifiable to me.

To my knowledge, GM nor A123 has said how much the battery pack will cost, but I am expecting it to be very expensive especially since GM is talking about leasing it.

But if EnerDel can do it $1500, why can’t A123 do the same? Or am I missing something?

]]> By: OhmExcited http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9049 OhmExcited Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:28:44 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9049 Do those EnerDel batteries exist in production, or are they just a nice idea right now? Do those EnerDel batteries exist in production, or are they just a nice idea right now?

]]> By: Tim http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9046 Tim Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:00:50 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9046 EnerDel Lithium-ion Battery for Plug-ins will cost $1,500 http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/09/enerdel-lithium.html#more EnerDel Lithium-ion Battery for Plug-ins will cost $1,500

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/09/enerdel-lithium.html#more

]]> By: Tim http://gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9045 Tim Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:48:37 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/27/more-fighting-words-from-bob-lutz/#comment-9045 The Enerdel design looks VERY impressive. It has the advantages over Altairnano's and A123s designs. It can be more easily and cheaply mass-produced and it has superior thermal properties during charging and discharging. They are GM’s “new player” at the table. Ante-up! http://enerdel.com/content/view/104/87/ Here is a VERY interesting 9/26 podcast with Bob Lutz: http://www.podtech.net/home/4247/conversations-with-bob-lutz-gms-vice-chairman The Enerdel design looks VERY impressive. It has the advantages over Altairnano’s and A123s designs. It can be more easily and cheaply mass-produced and it has superior thermal properties during charging and discharging. They are GM’s “new player” at the table. Ante-up!

http://enerdel.com/content/view/104/87/

Here is a VERY interesting 9/26 podcast with Bob Lutz:

http://www.podtech.net/home/4247/conversations-with-bob-lutz-gms-vice-chairman

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