Comments on: Could This Be the Volt’s Combustion Engine: GM Demonstrates HCCI Motor for 1st Time in Driveable Car http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:55:54 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Neutron Flux http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5308 Neutron Flux Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:30:20 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5308 I must agree that now is not the time for HCCI. We have enough technical issues and will have enough service packs on the initial release of Volt 1.0 fine tuning battery mgmt etc. GM would be well advised to take the large gains in fleet fuel efficiency produced by the PEHV & not risk damage to the potential marketability by introducing too many unknowns with a planned implementation of 2011 model year production, which is only begging for trouble. Hopefully GM has heard of "milk before meat". They have been working on this engine for several decades & still have significant issues. Not a good time to put a Piranha in the baby bath water. I must agree that now is not the time for HCCI. We have enough technical issues and will have enough service packs on the initial release of Volt 1.0 fine tuning battery mgmt etc. GM would be well advised to take the large gains in fleet fuel efficiency produced by the PEHV & not risk damage to the potential marketability by introducing too many unknowns with a planned implementation of 2011 model year production, which is only begging for trouble. Hopefully GM has heard of “milk before meat”. They have been working on this engine for several decades & still have significant issues. Not a good time to put a Piranha in the baby bath water.

]]> By: Steve F http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5306 Steve F Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:13:36 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5306 Another vote to not include a HCCI range extender in the Volt. It is to much of a unknown and already have enough new technology. Yes, focus on the electric powertrain and batteries. Just having ICE with turbocharge, like original proposal, will be fine for first release. Only better choice and proven is to offer diesel in US, but that could also add cost to item that will not be used that much. So agree keep it simple. Another vote to not include a HCCI range extender in the Volt. It is to much of a unknown and already have enough new technology. Yes, focus on the electric powertrain and batteries. Just having ICE with turbocharge, like original proposal, will be fine for first release. Only better choice and proven is to offer diesel in US, but that could also add cost to item that will not be used that much. So agree keep it simple.

]]> By: Andy http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5293 Andy Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:44:25 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5293 I tend to agree with Kent... let's keep it simple. Too much invention means too much to go wrong. (That's the engineer in me talking) GM can't afford anymore unknowns. Bring the HCCI (which I must say is VERY cool) to other vehicles first, and once it is proven technology, cross it over to the Volt. (Same goes for the Volt... once it is proven technology, cross it over to other vehicles) I tend to agree with Kent… let’s keep it simple. Too much invention means too much to go wrong. (That’s the engineer in me talking) GM can’t afford anymore unknowns. Bring the HCCI (which I must say is VERY cool) to other vehicles first, and once it is proven technology, cross it over to the Volt. (Same goes for the Volt… once it is proven technology, cross it over to other vehicles)

]]> By: Questions http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5285 Questions Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:33:24 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5285 I'm sure the engine can adjust as needed to whatever fuel is used, since it will only have a constant RPM. I like this idea, and it'll be a nice surprise if they use it in the Volt. I’m sure the engine can adjust as needed to whatever fuel is used, since it will only have a constant RPM.

I like this idea, and it’ll be a nice surprise if they use it in the Volt.

]]> By: Brian http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5284 Brian Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:14:37 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5284 i'm concerned about the octane level of gas you use in this engine. wouldn't it be a very specific requirement? in other words, if the engine was designed to burn regular gas, then premium may fail to ignite (because of its higher octane). likewise, if the engine was designed for premium, there would be devastating knock if regular gas was used. also, i don't see E85 as an option, unless the engine is designed for E85 only, and regular gasoline is never used (E85 has a very high octane number, even higher than premium gas). i’m concerned about the octane level of gas you use in this engine. wouldn’t it be a very specific requirement? in other words, if the engine was designed to burn regular gas, then premium may fail to ignite (because of its higher octane). likewise, if the engine was designed for premium, there would be devastating knock if regular gas was used.

also, i don’t see E85 as an option, unless the engine is designed for E85 only, and regular gasoline is never used (E85 has a very high octane number, even higher than premium gas).

]]> By: kent beuchert http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5281 kent beuchert Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:39:45 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5281 The HCCI engine has to be warmed up before it can operate in sparkless mode, an iffy proposition for the VOLT range extender, which will only run a few minutes before cutting off for awhile. Also, I'm not so sure the VOLT's engine can be considered to be running under "light load." I'd much rather the money be spent on batteries rather than the range extender. For some folks, like me, that range extender is going to get very little use. I can't see GM looking for yet more unproven technologies to introduce into the VOLT. There are enough already to scare any engineer. The HCCI engine has to be warmed up before it can operate in sparkless mode, an iffy proposition for the VOLT range extender, which will only run a few minutes before cutting off for awhile. Also, I’m not so sure the VOLT’s engine can be considered to be running under “light load.” I’d much rather the money be spent on batteries rather than the range extender. For some folks, like me, that range extender is going to get very little use. I can’t see GM looking for yet more unproven technologies to introduce into the VOLT. There are enough already to scare any
engineer.

]]> By: Dave http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5277 Dave Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:05:48 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5277 The engine won't be running that much, so super high fuel efficiency is not critical. The most important considerations will be: - cost - reliability - noise Noise may actually be a big consideration. Given that the engine is usually off, the first few times it comes on may scare you. After that, it might just be really annoying, especially since you have no control over it. Does anyone know which of these 3 engines has the least noise? - 1.0L 3-piston turbo-charged with spark plugs - HCCI - small turbine Also, since the engine runs at constant RPM, I'm assuming the exhust system would be highly tuned for this RPM. Does anyone know how much difference this will make? The engine won’t be running that much, so super high fuel efficiency is not critical. The most important considerations will be:
– cost
– reliability
– noise

Noise may actually be a big consideration. Given that the engine is usually off, the first few times it comes on may scare you. After that, it might just be really annoying, especially since you have no control over it.

Does anyone know which of these 3 engines has the least noise?
– 1.0L 3-piston turbo-charged with spark plugs
– HCCI
– small turbine

Also, since the engine runs at constant RPM, I’m assuming the exhust system would be highly tuned for this RPM. Does anyone know how much difference this will make?

]]> By: AES http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5258 AES Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:50:01 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5258 According to the ABG article, HCCI apparently requires sophisticated computer control mechanisms to get it to work properly, even at the low speeds and loads that a series hybrid gen-set would encounter. A more traditional ICE is more likely in the works - at least for the first generation Volt. Like I always say, keep in simple. One option for the gen-set that hasn't been touched upon, as far as I know, is the microturbines that GM used in its EV1 series hybrid prototype. As efficiency and low mass goes, that would be a great option, but GM's existing manufacturing infrastructure is already well optimized for building piston engines. According to the ABG article, HCCI apparently requires sophisticated computer control mechanisms to get it to work properly, even at the low speeds and loads that a series hybrid gen-set would encounter. A more traditional ICE is more likely in the works – at least for the first generation Volt. Like I always say, keep in simple.

One option for the gen-set that hasn’t been touched upon, as far as I know, is the microturbines that GM used in its EV1 series hybrid prototype. As efficiency and low mass goes, that would be a great option, but GM’s existing manufacturing infrastructure is already well optimized for building piston engines.

]]> By: Matt986 http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5252 Matt986 Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:09:09 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/26/could-this-be-the-volts-combustion-engine-gm-demonstrates-hcci-motor-for-1st-time-in-driveable-car/#comment-5252 I think it will depend on what the best speed for the engine is, and how much load is on it. I think direct injection will probably be the easiest advancement in internal combustion engines to incorporate in the generator. I think it will depend on what the best speed for the engine is, and how much load is on it. I think direct injection will probably be the easiest advancement in internal combustion engines to incorporate in the generator.

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