Comments on: FACT: Chevy Volt’s Generator to Start When Battery Power Drops to 50% http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:55:54 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Jeremy Wilson http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-15510 Jeremy Wilson Tue, 20 Nov 2007 03:36:44 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-15510 OFF TOPIC MALIBU FAKE HYBRID COMMENT: GM LOST 39 BILLION LAST QUARTER AND THEY DEPRESS ME WITH THIS HOAX HYBRID MALIBU THAT ONLY CUTS OFF THE ICE AT A STOPLIGHT TO CONSERVE FUEL AND THE BATTERIES ARE USED TO RESTART THE ICE QUICKLY AFTER YOU APPLY THE THROTTLE. GM ALSO LOVES THEIR CUSTOMERS SO MUCH THEY REFUSE TO POST A EMAIL ADDRESS FOR COMMENTS LIKE THIS. GM IS TRYING HARD TO BANKRUPT AND GET A GOVERMENT BAILOUT IT SEEMS IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE. ALSO DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT THE SAUDI'S HAVE BOUGHT OUT GENERAL ELECTRIC PLASTICS DIVISION WITH IT'S HUGE PROFITS THEY ARE GETTING FROM US ON GASOLINE SALES. I SAY, SAY NO TO GM UNTIL THEY SELL A REAL CAR WITH A REAL FUTURE FOR US AMERICANS BEFORE THE SAUDI'S OWN ALL OUR AMERICAN COMPANIES. OFF TOPIC MALIBU FAKE HYBRID COMMENT: GM LOST 39 BILLION LAST QUARTER AND THEY DEPRESS ME WITH THIS HOAX HYBRID MALIBU THAT ONLY CUTS OFF THE ICE AT A STOPLIGHT TO CONSERVE FUEL AND THE BATTERIES ARE USED TO RESTART THE ICE QUICKLY AFTER YOU APPLY THE THROTTLE. GM ALSO LOVES THEIR CUSTOMERS SO MUCH THEY REFUSE TO POST A EMAIL ADDRESS FOR COMMENTS LIKE THIS. GM IS TRYING HARD TO BANKRUPT AND GET A GOVERMENT BAILOUT IT SEEMS IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE. ALSO DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT THE SAUDI’S HAVE BOUGHT OUT GENERAL ELECTRIC PLASTICS DIVISION WITH IT’S HUGE PROFITS THEY ARE GETTING FROM US ON GASOLINE SALES. I SAY, SAY NO TO GM UNTIL THEY SELL A REAL CAR WITH A REAL FUTURE FOR US AMERICANS BEFORE THE SAUDI’S OWN ALL OUR AMERICAN COMPANIES.

]]> By: L Hayes http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-13429 L Hayes Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:23:48 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-13429 Nobody seems to be mentioning the fact that these packs by law must meet very high warranty standards, namely 10-years/150,000 miles, at least in CA and a half dozen other green states here in the Northeast. It's therefore essential the packs be babied, and a 50% DOD is plenty IMO. The Panasonic EV NIMH packs used in the Prius vacillate between 60-80% capacity, that's IT, a pretty narrow window but it works, and Toyota has had close to zero problems with their packs, even on the oldest cars. Separately, it is just as important not to recharge much above the 80% level as you must allow "room" for the regenerative power to go should the car encounter a long downhill and a lot of braking. It will be interesting to see the limits GM sets on its packs on the upper end given this is a serial hybrid and very different from the Prius. Nobody seems to be mentioning the fact that these packs by law must meet very high warranty standards, namely 10-years/150,000 miles, at least in CA and a half dozen other green states here in the Northeast. It’s therefore essential the packs be babied, and a 50% DOD is plenty IMO.

The Panasonic EV NIMH packs used in the Prius vacillate between 60-80% capacity, that’s IT, a pretty narrow window but it works, and Toyota has had close to zero problems with their packs, even on the oldest cars.

Separately, it is just as important not to recharge much above the 80% level as you must allow “room” for the regenerative power to go should the car encounter a long downhill and a lot of braking. It will be interesting to see the limits GM sets on its packs on the upper end given this is a serial hybrid and very different from the Prius.

]]> By: CM http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-5344 CM Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:43:15 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-5344 ug Says: "Here is how you beat the lack of a kill switch with no hacking required. Just don’t put any gas in it, period. Do you think they are going to make the car stall at 50% battery capacity??" No, I'd expect an idiot light to come on and a chime announcing "Out of Gas, please refill at the nearest available station", repeating over and over til you nearly go bonkers. If you ignore that advice, then around about 30% SOC, the car goes quiet and shuts down to protect the battery from excessive discharge. Then your choices are: get a tow, get a charge (if power is available) or get some gas and restart the car. But why pack around an engine and tank if you never plan to use it? There will be regular battery electric cars available, GM might even decide to offer a "battey only" version of the Volt. ug Says: “Here is how you beat the lack of a kill switch with no hacking required. Just don’t put any gas in it, period. Do you think they are going to make the car stall at 50% battery capacity??”

No, I’d expect an idiot light to come on and a chime announcing “Out of Gas, please refill at the nearest available station”, repeating over and over til you nearly go bonkers. If you ignore that advice, then around about 30% SOC, the car goes quiet and shuts down to protect the battery from excessive discharge. Then your choices are: get a tow, get a charge (if power is available) or get some gas and restart the car.

But why pack around an engine and tank if you never plan to use it? There will be regular battery electric cars available, GM might even decide to offer a “battey only” version of the Volt.

]]> By: Ron Erickson http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4890 Ron Erickson Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:29:11 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4890 Matt, no matter what the recharge min and max are, if a computer were to manage the recharge cycle based upon the miles to go to a full plug in recharge, you could always arrive home with a charge level that would allow maximum use of the 110v plug. Matt, no matter what the recharge min and max are, if a computer were to manage the recharge cycle based upon the miles to go to a full plug in recharge, you could always arrive home with a charge level that would allow maximum use of the 110v plug.

]]> By: Matt986 http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4860 Matt986 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:23:59 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4860 Well, you guys gotta realize that with the stated range of battery 'discharge' at 50%, it doesn't mean the battery will get charged to full (100%) and then only discharge to half full (50%). It will likely do what hybrids do with their batteries: Charge to about 80% of the 'full' capacity, and only discharge to about 30% of the 'full' capacity. That's 50% of the total capacity of the battery. So if you're looking at the range of the battery compared to 100% full, the battery would start out 'charged' at about 80%, then you'd drive. At about 40 miles, the battery would be at about 30% of 'full', and the generator would kick in and run until the battery is 'charged' at 80% of 'full'. Keeping the battery from going to 100% charge and 0% (completely depleted) allows for a longer service life for the cells. So don't confuse the 50% to mean that the battery will only charge to 50% total capacity, or that it will charge to 100%, and then only discharge to 50%. We haven't seen specific numbers yet, but I can bet that the '50%' usage will be between completely discharged, and completely charged. Ya follow? ;) Well, you guys gotta realize that with the stated range of battery ‘discharge’ at 50%, it doesn’t mean the battery will get charged to full (100%) and then only discharge to half full (50%).

It will likely do what hybrids do with their batteries: Charge to about 80% of the ‘full’ capacity, and only discharge to about 30% of the ‘full’ capacity. That’s 50% of the total capacity of the battery.

So if you’re looking at the range of the battery compared to 100% full, the battery would start out ‘charged’ at about 80%, then you’d drive. At about 40 miles, the battery would be at about 30% of ‘full’, and the generator would kick in and run until the battery is ‘charged’ at 80% of ‘full’.

Keeping the battery from going to 100% charge and 0% (completely depleted) allows for a longer service life for the cells.

So don’t confuse the 50% to mean that the battery will only charge to 50% total capacity, or that it will charge to 100%, and then only discharge to 50%.

We haven’t seen specific numbers yet, but I can bet that the ‘50%’ usage will be between completely discharged, and completely charged.

Ya follow? ;)

]]> By: stormc http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4795 stormc Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:47:19 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4795 Matt986 sez:"I’d bet money that the Volt will drive as such: You go ~40 miles, and the generator kicks in. You keep driving, and the generator stays on until the battery is charged, then it shuts off, and you get about another 40 miles. Repeat until you stop. It’s simple, and it keeps the cycling of the batteries uniform." If this is true, then you would never plug it in. It is more likely that the generator cycles on and off to keep the batteries at 40% to 60% capacity. Having the on board genset fully charge the batteries would defeat the purpose of the system. Matt986 sez:”I’d bet money that the Volt will drive as such: You go ~40 miles, and the generator kicks in. You keep driving, and the generator stays on until the battery is charged, then it shuts off, and you get about another 40 miles. Repeat until you stop. It’s simple, and it keeps the cycling of the batteries uniform.”
If this is true, then you would never plug it in. It is more likely that the generator cycles on and off to keep the batteries at 40% to 60% capacity. Having the on board genset fully charge the batteries would defeat the purpose of the system.

]]> By: voltman http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4763 voltman Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:56:16 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4763 keeping the car at 50% charge makes sense i guess. but why have that extra 8kwh of battery if you are not going to use it. I understand that you dont want to fully discharge the battery but 50% seems like overkill. 20% seems more reasonable. According to the a123systems.com website, their batteries can handle deep discharges anyway. keeping the car at 50% charge makes sense i guess. but why have that extra 8kwh of battery if you are not going to use it.

I understand that you dont want to fully discharge the battery but 50% seems like overkill. 20% seems more reasonable. According to the a123systems.com website, their batteries can handle deep discharges anyway.

]]> By: Tim http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4757 Tim Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:06:52 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4757 Matt, Including a Trip GPS tied to the “range extender” control is a no-brainer. Trip GPS is cheap and available in many car models today. This system will make sure that the “range extender” only provides enough electricity to reach the next off-board charging opportunity. I have trip GPS and it would only take about 30 seconds to punch in a destination address and indicate if opportunity charging is present. That's less time than it takes to warm-up your current ICE. Will it save fuel and money when used? YES. Will everybody use it? NO. Will most buyers want it? YES. Will most volt divers use it to save more fuel? YES. I LOVE my Trip GPS!!! Once you use it, you’re hooked! Matt,

Including a Trip GPS tied to the “range extender” control is a no-brainer. Trip GPS is cheap and available in many car models today. This system will make sure that the “range extender” only provides enough electricity to reach the next off-board charging opportunity. I have trip GPS and it would only take about 30 seconds to punch in a destination address and indicate if opportunity charging is present. That’s less time than it takes to warm-up your current ICE.

Will it save fuel and money when used? YES.
Will everybody use it? NO.
Will most buyers want it? YES.
Will most volt divers use it to save more fuel? YES.

I LOVE my Trip GPS!!! Once you use it, you’re hooked!

]]> By: Matt986 http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4575 Matt986 Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:34:19 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4575 Ron, That would probably require too much input from the driver. That's not a 'get in and drive' solution that everyone is used to. One would have to stop and think... "is it 57 miles or 67 to Bob's house? Should I tell the car it's 67 to be safe?" Having the management be tied into GPS would be easier, but again, still requires a lot of interaction. If you just want to run to the store, or across town to a destination you're familiar with, having to program the car every time you get into it would be cumbersome. I think just a couple modes would be the easiest solution. One mode that aggressively uses the generator to charge the battery, one that is passive which will limit the use of the generator and shut it off when the vehicle is shut off. We have yet to see how GM will manage the system, but the design leaves a bit of flexibility, that's for sure! Ron,

That would probably require too much input from the driver. That’s not a ‘get in and drive’ solution that everyone is used to.

One would have to stop and think… “is it 57 miles or 67 to Bob’s house? Should I tell the car it’s 67 to be safe?”

Having the management be tied into GPS would be easier, but again, still requires a lot of interaction. If you just want to run to the store, or across town to a destination you’re familiar with, having to program the car every time you get into it would be cumbersome.

I think just a couple modes would be the easiest solution. One mode that aggressively uses the generator to charge the battery, one that is passive which will limit the use of the generator and shut it off when the vehicle is shut off.

We have yet to see how GM will manage the system, but the design leaves a bit of flexibility, that’s for sure!

]]> By: Ron Erickson http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4569 Ron Erickson Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:39:39 +0000 http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/17/fact-chevy-volts-generator-to-start-when-battery-power-drops-to-50/#comment-4569 Why not be let a computer manage the recharge cycle based up miles to go to plug in for a full recharge? Could even hook it up to a GPS nav system. Why not be let a computer manage the recharge cycle based up miles to go to plug in for a full recharge? Could even hook it up to a GPS nav system.

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