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	<title>Comments on: Who Will Dominate the Future Hybrid Market, GM or Toyota?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:53:37 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: THOM</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-86077</link>
		<dc:creator>THOM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-86077</guid>
		<description>There is probably a reason why toyota doesnt use li-ion batteries.

Im sure the tested all option and chose what they felt was best.   

The only thing GM has been able to do is to drive a so called volt / cruse  1.5 miles to the whitehouse at 20MPH  (pretty much a pr stunt)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is probably a reason why toyota doesnt use li-ion batteries.</p>
<p>Im sure the tested all option and chose what they felt was best.   </p>
<p>The only thing GM has been able to do is to drive a so called volt / cruse  1.5 miles to the whitehouse at 20MPH  (pretty much a pr stunt)</p>
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		<title>By: mcharles</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-24669</link>
		<dc:creator>mcharles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 04:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-24669</guid>
		<description>First of all, GM&#039;s concept car is about as real as my Play-Doh model of a car that runs on pee and produces 500 horsepower.  I, too, can make claims all day long and never back them up.

Secondly, GM has never even produced a full hybrid car for production.  All the GM hybrids are partial--they can&#039;t run on electricity alone like the Prius has done since the first generation.

GM is a marketing company first, a car company second.  They rely on uneducated consumers to ooh and ahh over their promises and then hope that they&#039;ll forget once GM doesn&#039;t deliver and starts on their next set of promises.

I&#039;m amazed that anyone would even compare a Prius that has been out for years to a vaporware Volt.  Watch as time moves on and GM can&#039;t produce live up to their hype.  I can&#039;t wait to laugh at the excuses...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, GM&#8217;s concept car is about as real as my Play-Doh model of a car that runs on pee and produces 500 horsepower.  I, too, can make claims all day long and never back them up.</p>
<p>Secondly, GM has never even produced a full hybrid car for production.  All the GM hybrids are partial&#8211;they can&#8217;t run on electricity alone like the Prius has done since the first generation.</p>
<p>GM is a marketing company first, a car company second.  They rely on uneducated consumers to ooh and ahh over their promises and then hope that they&#8217;ll forget once GM doesn&#8217;t deliver and starts on their next set of promises.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m amazed that anyone would even compare a Prius that has been out for years to a vaporware Volt.  Watch as time moves on and GM can&#8217;t produce live up to their hype.  I can&#8217;t wait to laugh at the excuses&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: stormc</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-5143</link>
		<dc:creator>stormc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-5143</guid>
		<description>&quot;The EV1 was the right idea at the wrong time&quot; still bugs me. If GM had just run with it, they&#039;d be world leaders instead of nearing bankrupcy.

Don, look for the multifuel capability of the diesel to play heavily in the future. If the Volt had a diesel, it could run on cooking oil or biodiesel or whatever. This is probably the ideal for transportation. There isn&#039;t enough capacity to just run on the biodiesel. 15% biodiesel, 85% electric is doable.

Once the Volt becomes popular, the next step will be pure EV. The Volt is an EV with training wheels. 

If you haven&#039;t seen it, this is a nice story http://portev.org/commentary/living_in_the_past.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The EV1 was the right idea at the wrong time&#8221; still bugs me. If GM had just run with it, they&#8217;d be world leaders instead of nearing bankrupcy.</p>
<p>Don, look for the multifuel capability of the diesel to play heavily in the future. If the Volt had a diesel, it could run on cooking oil or biodiesel or whatever. This is probably the ideal for transportation. There isn&#8217;t enough capacity to just run on the biodiesel. 15% biodiesel, 85% electric is doable.</p>
<p>Once the Volt becomes popular, the next step will be pure EV. The Volt is an EV with training wheels. </p>
<p>If you haven&#8217;t seen it, this is a nice story <a href="http://portev.org/commentary/living_in_the_past.htm" rel="nofollow">http://portev.org/commentary/living_in_the_past.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-4831</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 05:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-4831</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve asked this in another thread as well but this may be a better venue ... how does the advent of better diesel - low pollution, quiet, high power, and amazing mpg - being released over the next two years, influence the chance for success for this vehicle?

Honda is basically moving to diesel as their high mpg, low carbon play. They&#039;ll still make the hybrid Civic but the hybrid Accord is gone and by 2009 will be a diesel Accord.

I personally think that EV via a PHEV transition phase is the way to go, but if you add in biodiesel into the mix, diesel as an alternative also seems very attractive. 

My hope is that GM learns from Toyota&#039;s playbook and is willing to even take a loss for a season or two to get their sales volumes up to a cost effective point. Despite our enthusiasm and willingness to pre-order without a test drive or review in hand, price and lifetime cost of ownership for a similiarly performing ICE car will be critical factors for most.

BTW re Tesla (and Phoenix too) ... great vehicles but that range and power comes at a pretty penny ... 100K for the roadster and @50K for the Phoenix sport ute (which is at a substantial loss if it wasn&#039;t for California&#039;s ample ZEV credits) &quot;White Star&quot; also won&#039;t be cheap and until rapid recharge is easily doable and widsely available on the road, few of the mainstream will find it attractive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve asked this in another thread as well but this may be a better venue &#8230; how does the advent of better diesel &#8211; low pollution, quiet, high power, and amazing mpg &#8211; being released over the next two years, influence the chance for success for this vehicle?</p>
<p>Honda is basically moving to diesel as their high mpg, low carbon play. They&#8217;ll still make the hybrid Civic but the hybrid Accord is gone and by 2009 will be a diesel Accord.</p>
<p>I personally think that EV via a PHEV transition phase is the way to go, but if you add in biodiesel into the mix, diesel as an alternative also seems very attractive. </p>
<p>My hope is that GM learns from Toyota&#8217;s playbook and is willing to even take a loss for a season or two to get their sales volumes up to a cost effective point. Despite our enthusiasm and willingness to pre-order without a test drive or review in hand, price and lifetime cost of ownership for a similiarly performing ICE car will be critical factors for most.</p>
<p>BTW re Tesla (and Phoenix too) &#8230; great vehicles but that range and power comes at a pretty penny &#8230; 100K for the roadster and @50K for the Phoenix sport ute (which is at a substantial loss if it wasn&#8217;t for California&#8217;s ample ZEV credits) &#8220;White Star&#8221; also won&#8217;t be cheap and until rapid recharge is easily doable and widsely available on the road, few of the mainstream will find it attractive.</p>
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		<title>By: C Miles</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3682</link>
		<dc:creator>C Miles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 03:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3682</guid>
		<description>Amen, Storm Conners.

Bob Lutz did announce today thet they were going with A123 batteries for delivery this fall- a demo care ready by spring &#039;08.

Lets hope that Bob Lutz is a man of his word.

I think the folks that would think I was Trolling don&#039;t quite get that I WANT this car to happen.

But you know what they say, fool us twice, shame on U.S. 

I think the name IMPACT was a kinda funny choice. Carson had a lot of fun with the name. (and he was a Corvette owner)

The Guys at RENCen have to build a great car, market it properly and provide follow through. Given that Buick just tied Lexus in J.D. Power quality... I have hope this time around.

OH, and the thin tech guy in the Video Standing in front of the Impact? He took his Controller know how and technology to Tesla 

Tesla Sports Coupe : 250-300 Mile Range. Thousands of Lithium Batteries 0-60 in 4.   

Next up; their high end consumer car... Codenamed &quot;White Star.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Storm Conners.</p>
<p>Bob Lutz did announce today thet they were going with A123 batteries for delivery this fall- a demo care ready by spring &#8216;08.</p>
<p>Lets hope that Bob Lutz is a man of his word.</p>
<p>I think the folks that would think I was Trolling don&#8217;t quite get that I WANT this car to happen.</p>
<p>But you know what they say, fool us twice, shame on U.S. </p>
<p>I think the name IMPACT was a kinda funny choice. Carson had a lot of fun with the name. (and he was a Corvette owner)</p>
<p>The Guys at RENCen have to build a great car, market it properly and provide follow through. Given that Buick just tied Lexus in J.D. Power quality&#8230; I have hope this time around.</p>
<p>OH, and the thin tech guy in the Video Standing in front of the Impact? He took his Controller know how and technology to Tesla </p>
<p>Tesla Sports Coupe : 250-300 Mile Range. Thousands of Lithium Batteries 0-60 in 4.   </p>
<p>Next up; their high end consumer car&#8230; Codenamed &#8220;White Star.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: storm connors</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3671</link>
		<dc:creator>storm connors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 03:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3671</guid>
		<description>Thank you, C Miles,for the May 1990 ad. They could change &quot;Impact&quot; to &quot;Volt&quot; and use the ads again- except the 100 mile range has been reduced to 40. 16 years of steady progress. GM could have sold all the EV1s they could produce, but they chose not to produce them.
To state that the EV1 was created before the world was ready for it is a disingenuous cop out. Every time I hear one of the GM spokepersons say that the car production is dependent on the battery development I cringe. I can almost hear the press conference in 2010 when they are looking forward to building the car &quot;as soon as the batteries are available.&quot; 10 mile battery range would beat the Prius. Build it now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, C Miles,for the May 1990 ad. They could change &#8220;Impact&#8221; to &#8220;Volt&#8221; and use the ads again- except the 100 mile range has been reduced to 40. 16 years of steady progress. GM could have sold all the EV1s they could produce, but they chose not to produce them.<br />
To state that the EV1 was created before the world was ready for it is a disingenuous cop out. Every time I hear one of the GM spokepersons say that the car production is dependent on the battery development I cringe. I can almost hear the press conference in 2010 when they are looking forward to building the car &#8220;as soon as the batteries are available.&#8221; 10 mile battery range would beat the Prius. Build it now.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3628</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3628</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t Toyota come from behind in market share in the 1970&#039;s and 1980&#039;s to put American car manufacturers where they are now? It just seems like you are underestimating the drive and determination of Toyota to be the world&#039;s leading car manufacturer; where there is a will, there is a way. To be totally cliché, history (especially market history) does have a habit of repeating itself. With new talent and new technology being added to the market daily, so I would not say Toyota is even close to being down for the count.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Toyota come from behind in market share in the 1970&#8217;s and 1980&#8217;s to put American car manufacturers where they are now? It just seems like you are underestimating the drive and determination of Toyota to be the world&#8217;s leading car manufacturer; where there is a will, there is a way. To be totally cliché, history (especially market history) does have a habit of repeating itself. With new talent and new technology being added to the market daily, so I would not say Toyota is even close to being down for the count.</p>
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		<title>By: green</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3619</link>
		<dc:creator>green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3619</guid>
		<description>I think they will take NanoSafe battery 

Altairnano (alti) have a great battery and 

SAFE!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they will take NanoSafe battery </p>
<p>Altairnano (alti) have a great battery and </p>
<p>SAFE!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Drake</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3596</link>
		<dc:creator>Drake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 02:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3596</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Volt is a life-or-death decision for GM.&quot;  I could not agree more.  GM is playing some SERIOUS catchup now both politically and technologically.  Sure they had the EV1, which I&#039;m sure taught them a lot about making an electric vehicle, but Toyota has had hybrids on the road for a decade now.  The Volt will be version 1.1 for GM.

Toyota is playing it safe though.  They are holding on to their dual-train hybrids and NiMH batteries.  Also, Toyota has not made a sexy car in their existence. 

GM is finally waking up from their SUV-induced sleep.  

OptimisticMF - yeah on a sidenote, on thing I love about globalization is that there are MILLIONS of more minds now available to work on problems like replacing the ICE engine.  If a poor Chinaman makes the next great car I will buy it.

bean12 - If the Volt is all just a PR thing then GM is officially dead.  Oil spikes are coming, big time, and if GM sits on their hands and does not leap for the new technology, they are doomed.  Either way, I don&#039;t care.  It is their decision.

CMiles - you can rest assured (and so can I) that our tax dollars that were spent on the EV1 are being used to their fullest now (or atleast the know-how that it allowed).  It was not a waste, infact it may have been the best thing that the government could have done to help the American auto industry survive.  Without the EV1 project, GM would have really been starting from square one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Volt is a life-or-death decision for GM.&#8221;  I could not agree more.  GM is playing some SERIOUS catchup now both politically and technologically.  Sure they had the EV1, which I&#8217;m sure taught them a lot about making an electric vehicle, but Toyota has had hybrids on the road for a decade now.  The Volt will be version 1.1 for GM.</p>
<p>Toyota is playing it safe though.  They are holding on to their dual-train hybrids and NiMH batteries.  Also, Toyota has not made a sexy car in their existence. </p>
<p>GM is finally waking up from their SUV-induced sleep.  </p>
<p>OptimisticMF &#8211; yeah on a sidenote, on thing I love about globalization is that there are MILLIONS of more minds now available to work on problems like replacing the ICE engine.  If a poor Chinaman makes the next great car I will buy it.</p>
<p>bean12 &#8211; If the Volt is all just a PR thing then GM is officially dead.  Oil spikes are coming, big time, and if GM sits on their hands and does not leap for the new technology, they are doomed.  Either way, I don&#8217;t care.  It is their decision.</p>
<p>CMiles &#8211; you can rest assured (and so can I) that our tax dollars that were spent on the EV1 are being used to their fullest now (or atleast the know-how that it allowed).  It was not a waste, infact it may have been the best thing that the government could have done to help the American auto industry survive.  Without the EV1 project, GM would have really been starting from square one.</p>
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		<title>By: kent beuchert</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3588</link>
		<dc:creator>kent beuchert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 00:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/08/08/who-will-dominate-the-future-hybrid-market-gm-or-toyota/#comment-3588</guid>
		<description>With the advent of plug-ins in a class segment, it&#039;s hard to understand why anyone would waste money on a plain hybrid. 
If I were GM, I&#039;d be looking to expand e-flex into a variety of platforms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the advent of plug-ins in a class segment, it&#8217;s hard to understand why anyone would waste money on a plain hybrid.<br />
If I were GM, I&#8217;d be looking to expand e-flex into a variety of platforms.</p>
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